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TERESA GIUDICE, JOE GIUDICE UPDATE: $1Million Bond… Passports Surrendered… Juicy Subject To Drug Testing, Possible Deportation… Arraignment August 14… Juicy’s Parents Tell Reporters “F Off” “Go To Hell”!

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After appearing in a New Jersey federal court Tuesday morning, reality TV stars Teresa and Giuseppe “Joe” Giudice were each released on $500,000 unsecured appearance bonds.

Neither Teresa nor Joe entered pleas; and an arraignment was set for August 14.   Teresa Giudice’s lawyer, Henry Klingeman, said yesterday that she would plead “not guilty.”

In a packed courtroom, the couple stared straight ahead as they heard major charges read aloud from the 39-count indictment. The charges include conspiracy to commit mail and wire fraud, bank fraud, making false statements on loan applications and bankruptcy fraud.   NOTE:  Read the indictment at Justice.gov.

The reality stars must turn over their passports and stay in New York and New Jersey, according to the terms of the bail.

Joe Giudice, who is not a U.S. citizen, is subject to drug testing, reports TMZ. Teresa Giudice will not be subjected to drug tests.

AND… from the NYDailyNews:

“None of your f—–g business,” she [Juicy's mother, Filomena] snapped, when a reporter asked about the prospect of her boy being booted out of the country. “Worry about yourself.

“Go to hell,” Giudice’s father barked.

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249 comments on “TERESA GIUDICE, JOE GIUDICE UPDATE: $1Million Bond… Passports Surrendered… Juicy Subject To Drug Testing, Possible Deportation… Arraignment August 14… Juicy’s Parents Tell Reporters “F Off” “Go To Hell”!

  1. i have never seen such a “rush to judgement” as I have here. God forbid any one of you ever get accused of anything ever. Shall we all just assume you are guilty without KNOWING your story? Look back on these comments and reflect. Not all guilty people get prosecuted and not all the prosecuted are guilty. This has nothing to do with if you *like* the Giudices or hate them. I don’t know them. But for the grace of God go I. We are a country of Innocent until proven guilty. We may think “oh hell yes they are guilty”, but perception is not reality. OJ got off. Casey Anthony got off. Were they guilty????

    • No rush to judgement. Reread my above post. Federal courts have a 98% conviction rate. If you can concede he has already plead to providing forged documents to the court in his previous case-plus- has 10 years hanging over his head for providing forged fraudulent documents in that case, then this is a pattern of fraudulent behavior. If Juicy is convicted in his upcoming case, he may be attending these trials from a cell.

      • Yes they do. It is very difficult to beat a Fed case. And ninja is right they have a conviction rate of 98 percent. Even trying to appeal a Fed case is usually thrown out. I live in Detroit, and when our dumb ass mayor was convicted ( which made me happy ). I did a lot of reading in the Feds and the Rico law. So I don’t think people are judging to quick, but the numbers don’t lie. So either they start singing to reduce some of their sentence, if convicted on even 10 of the 39, they are going to jail. No ifs, ands, buts about it.

        • 97% of the 98% conviction rate is made up of plea bargains, Charletta.

          Of people who actually go to trial, two-thirds (or 66%) are convicted and one-third (or 33%) are exonerated.

          Still not good odds, of course, but conviction is hardly a foregone conclusion.

    • Lot of experts on the justice system, too. Many appear to believe they have the “inside track” on what the verdict will be and who is going to jail and for how long. Apparently, its nothing but a detail that the accused have not even been arraigned, much less been through a trial! Since I know nothing at all about what evidence there is or is not, I will refrain from comments that attempt to show knowledge I obviously couldn’t possibly possess.
      I’m funny like that…

    • Bravo Cheers y’all… its another hate fest… people have got to stop… we really don’t know anything yet… I pray for justice in EVERYTHING… and again.. we don’t even know what the defense has to say….

  2. Remember when Jac Laurita and caroline Flipped out on Tre on the deck? Jac was hysterical and caroline was so nasty about Teresa’s finances. I remember thinking what the hell are they so angry about its none of their business. I bet they were mad because the IRS questioned them about Teresa and joe. That put them under the IRS radar. It’s all making sense now.

  3. I think they are all involved. If you read the indictment, there is mention of a clothing brand (Lauritas) & a gas station (Wakiles). Either the rest of them are next, or they all cut a deal.

    • I read a good bit of the full indictment and it was my sense that the issue of those other businesses was in regard to the Jewdeechay’s income from them was not declared in the bankruptcy filings, not that they were fraudulent in and of themselves. Though, they may well be.

  4. So they went through the trouble of making false returns to get loans but never filed legit tax returns. Totally bizarro!

  5. Anyone who thinks they will walk away, just ask Martha Stewart, Wesley Snipes, or Richard Hatch, the original Survivor winner who pocketed his million dollar prize thinking it was tax free. I can see Joe and Teresa’s inspired new product….”Felonnini”

  6. Wtf. This is too crazy, are we gonna see half this cast in prison by next year? I guess if Tre and Juicy gotta move to Italy Bravo can always do a RHOI…

    • Honestly, I am sure I will quit watching if there is no Teresa. I find the rest of the cast boring. However, as adults, we do have to have accountability for our actions, and if the courts deem she needs to serve time, so be it. I am sure her mother will care for her children.

  7. Something I found interesting today was Juicy’s attorney saying he didn’t know he wasn’t a US Citizen. At first, I thought what the hell? How could he not know! However, if he came here at the age of 1, and his parents got his social security card at a young age, is it possible? I don’t know for sure and someone who wasn’t born here would have to clarify for me. Since he’s a legal resident, he would have a social security card. I would think that his birth certificate would have given him a clue, but who knows? Like I said at first I was rolling my eyes and saying of course he knew. It may be something that he honestly never gave much, thought, though. I would think being an American is all he has ever known. His parents reaction seemed more than a little crazy.

    Side note, I am fairly certain this case will come down to a plea bargain of some sort. While I believe in innocent until proven guilty, the evidence seems very overwhelming, and the prosecution seems determined to get their conviction. What concerns me is still the well being of the children. Before anyone says anything, I also am concerned about the Laurita children and how their legal issues will affect them. It’s one thing to trash talk the adults while watching the show, it’s a whole other ballgame to wish badly on these kids. I still don’t understand what these adults were thinking, or if they were thinking.

    Side note, Miss Kim G sure is a mean spirited woman. It’s one thing to want to see justice, it’s another to wish badly on others. Maybe I am too soft hearted? I just thought that was evil.

    • my kids are in 50′s my youngest is late 40′s when they were born, we didn’t get ss numbers for them, back then it was unheard of,forgot when it started but think it might be about late 80′;s

  8. First, I am a very long-time reader of SH, with no real side or loyalty to any housewives. I like the mindless drama. I call each situation as I see it. I always think about commenting, but I don’t have time and usually someone else says what I’m thinking anyhow, most often the regular posters. My husband says I’m Team Giudice, and I do tend to sympathize with Teresa, but I’m not a “Tree-hugger.” I just find them amusing. But this is not funny in any way.

    Anyhow, doing some simple reading will clear up most questions. The indictment itself is an easy read.

    The IRS often goes after public figures. That keeps the “little people,” as Leona Helmsley called us, in check. Tax liens and investigations are sometimes settled for lesser amounts, and sometimes people go to prison, whether they pay or cannot pay. The only constant is if the IRS comes for you, you will not get out of it. The penalties are determined on a case-by-case basis, like all crimes are tried.

    Teresa glossed over the bankruptcy case, saying they were paying their debts. It was reported that their discharge was denied because they were hiding assets. Perhaps I misread or paid too much attention to uninformed comments, because I swear I thought Teresa said they withdrew their bankruptcy and decided to pay their debts. I speculated that they must have struck some sort of deal, because if they were not hiding anything, why withdraw the filing? But I did think it was honorable that Teresa was working to pay off their debts.

    Now it is obvious that they did not strike a deal, and they did not withdraw the filing. They were denied the bankruptcy discharge, as listed in the indictment and previously reported. They hoped, or were just pretending in public, that it would go away if they attempted to pay off their debts. The federal government does not work that way. The damage was done, enough alleged perjury to investigate. I assume it works the same way as “innocent until proven guilty.” They can investigate based on this probable cause. They might not even need probable cause! I honestly don’t know the federal court’s limitations. But they began their case on the bankruptcy fraud, and then they kept going, finding as much as they could. The Feds are notorious for making examples out of high-profile people, especially with finances and taxes.

    Because she has been referenced so much, Martha Stewart was not convicted of insider trading or securities fraud. Google it if you must. She was convicted of obstructing justice and lying to investigators. The G’s both allegedly lied under oath several times about several properties/incomes. That leads me to think, if the perjury allegations are founded, T will probably serve some time, but this is pure speculation and I have no idea how much.

    A quick Google search on statute of limitations shows that there are exceptions, one being continuing violations. If a crime is ongoing, or part of the same “scheme,” the statute of limitations doesn’t apply. Gossiping with my dad, he said it was used in the past against organized crime members bc investigations took a long time and they were hard to catch. If you read the Giudice indictment, they are being charged with conspiracy, and it lists their “schemes.” Their last crime within the scheme has to be within the statute of limitations, and then any other crimes in the scheme can be included.

    I’ve not had much experience with buying and selling properties, (I’ve only bought one condo, a few cars over the years) nor with taking out home equity loans, but I would assume one would have to be physically present at some point to be the sole owner of a property or the only person listed on a loan. T is listed on some loans and properties without J. I could be totally wrong about this, but it seems like a stretch that she would never be physically present to sign some documents, even in a shady industry. And the indictment doesn’t say that ALL of the documents were mailed. It just says that mail and other private carriers were used to submit fraudulent documents. That could be mailing any document. Once the transaction is fraudulent, any associated mailings are included as fraudulent. Think of how many documents are signed or sent when you take out a loan or buy a property.

    The Feds don’t mess around. They investigate, wait until they have solid evidence to indict, then they drop the bomb. Even T’s lawyer said something to the extent of, “With a Federal case, there’s always a risk of jail.” Look up “federal conviction rate.” There are a lot of numbers tossed around from many sources, but everyone agrees it is high. 90-98% high. Is every person indicted by the federal government guilty? Of course not. But they pick and choose their cases carefully, investigate thoroughly, and strive to maintain their high conviction rates. Plea bargains count as convictions, and are often taken by defendants because the federal cases are so iron-clad. Why do you think people are so afraid of “The Feds”?

    As for the Lauritas, their company filed in 2010. The Giudices filed in 2009. I assume the Feds are building the Laurita case still. I’m sure it will be all over the media if they drop the the investigation. Until then, they are still under investigation, and are probably sweating it right now. I feel for Jac bc I have a kid with special needs and I know how hard it is. All of my spare time is truly dedicated to helping my son, engaging him in therapeutic techniques, communicating with his therapists, researching, and I have a full-time job as an educator and administrator. This is why I’ve never posted (summer break gives me a little respite). I sneak a few minutes before bed each night to indulge in my guilty pleasure of the RHW, especially on this blog. My husband and I are educated and part of the shrinking middle class, and we have to live within a budget to support our child. If, and I mean IF, she and her husband pilfered that company on private jets and limos and other nonsense, then I hate her. I spend all of my extra money on co-pays and therapies to help my child, flying coach while sweating and wrangling my child as others shoot me disapproving looks or mumble criticisms, just to visit relatives – not taking luxurious vacations.

    Whether or not the mortgage industry was or is still corrupt, that is not an excuse. Yes, many people committed fraudulent acts like these. Each person who is caught and convicted deters others from doing the same. When you get caught, you pay the price. I wish more people would get caught instead of just celebrities. Maybe then I could sell my condo and move into a better school district. I’m only about 15k underwater, but like many people, I don’t have 15k to bring to a closing, plus a down payment on a new house. And I bought a starter home within my means when the market was declining. I can’t imagine what others are going through.

    My guilty RHW pleasure is no longer a pleasure.

    • Your points are valid and your post is loaded with good sense. I do think though, that the bankruptcy was withdrawn. There are a number of news stories regarding that as a fact, so I am thinking that really happened. I have no experience with bankruptcy, Thank God, but perhaps it is possible for a fraud case to be pursued even after it is withdrawn. The mere filing of the bankruptcy case constitutes fraud, maybe?

      • Thanks, sherry!
        As for the bankruptcy, the indictment definitely says each of them were denied a discharge of bankruptcy.
        Is this the same as “withdrawing”?
        To me, “withdrawn” sounds voluntary. “Denied” sounds forced.
        I am just glad that I’m not going crazy, because I definitely read/heard “withdrawn.”
        Perhaps it is T’s positive spin, and she left out that she was forced to withdraw?
        There is so much online and here about it, but I can’t quickly find a clear answer.
        And you’re right, it has been reported as waived, withdrawn, and denied. The media doesn’t have the best track record for fact-checking (Manti Teo, hah).
        But the indictment says denied. I’m going with that as the most reputable document for now.
        I’m sure Ms. SH knows… Can you help?
        Now I’m going to be addicted to commenting. I’ll wind up like Jac, ignoring my kid to be online all day talking about Jac ignoring her kid. Karma gets us all!

  9. I am not in the US so I haven’t seen much of the financial woes of the Teresa and Jo published (except on SH). I’ve got to admit in watching the show it is really easy to get caught up in the petty drama that these ladies all rely on for their income, when something this serious is going on behind the scenes. I will admit that from what is on the show I have been a fan of Teresa over the others, but now I’m just disgusted with all of them (after watching the last reunion and the beginning of this season). I suppose that this situation goes to show that you definitely don’t know who the people on these shows really are (partly because of editing as well as entertainment value).

    What we can conclude is, if Teresa and Jo are found guilty by the court and the judgement is upheld at any appeals, is that what they did was and is wrong! And frankly I hope that any individual, business or corporation who breaks the law like is alleged here are also held accountable, because no one will benefit in the end.

  10. Just read Famewhorgas and I think Jac and Caro were definetly rats trying to get Tre to admit things about her mag deals, etc, on the deck scene….and Creepy Chris making sure Jaco got the goods from Tre….Jaco prob wearing a wire. There is documented remarks, etc., how Jaco gabs every day with Kim Granatell to the lawyer -just go read. This makes so much sense – Melissa, all of them. Rats. Andy Cohen has been extremely cheerful since the news broke, but he and the rest knew this was coming. Maybe that is why he is up Caroline’s butt so much-this is all just so disgusting. Every darn one of these people are dirty-ALL OF THEM.

  11. How come marrying Teresa didn’t make Joe a US Citizen? And why didn’t he go and become one after living here all these years. – I still remember Teresa buying all that furniture and whipping out cash, prolly wasn’t a good idea on camera if you aren’t paying taxes – maybe Joe can share a cell with Wesley Snipes lol

  12. Why have so many of you who defend the Giudices not read the indictment? You can either continue to fein ignorance or simply type Giudice fraud indictment into Google and read the facts. And the facts aren’t pretty. If you don’t understand the charges you can also Google the terms and learn what they are. The bankruptcy is what sparked the investigation. Once the bankruptcy courts found out they had lied the rest was investigated. They filed almost 5 million in mortgages and claimed little ( for their lifestyle) income. JMS had it mostly right, other that his/her lack of knowledge on the mortgage crisis and banking collapse. While there were some large lending institutions (Countrywide and their liberal partners in crime… Chris Dodd, Chuck Schumer, etc) and mostly smaller privately owned companies who themselves knowingly committed fraud to make millions, most banks were forced to do the risky ” no income” loans and loans to what were once determined to be riskier buyers by threat of lawsuits by liberal organizations who pushed home ownership as a human right and not what it is, a privilege. Google the Community Reinvestment Act started by Jimmy Carter and expanded further by Bill Clinton if you want to understand the truth behind the housing collapse. Or you can all Google the involvement of a former community organizer from Chicago and then Senator from illinois and now President and his involvements in those threatening lawsuits. Stated income loans were used by millions of qualified and honest people with no fraud for years. The Giudices didn’t even do this type of loan or they wouldn’t have had to prove their income with paystubs and W-2′s. And the courts have deemed that the documents they did produce were fraudulent. And when you produce a tax return for proof of income that you never filed with the IRS, that’s fraud. And you think all fraud should be caught by banks? How? Some fraudulent documents are easily spotted, others not so much. It depends on how good the person doctoring the documents is. With Joe Giudice’s past fraud charges, he apparently was, or someone he knew, was good at it. The Guidice’s are a perfect example of the collapse of the housing industry. 3 houses, 1 with 3 mortgages, 1 with 4, and their 1.7 million dollar mansion. Then throw in the equity loans on the businesses and you see how they supported themselves….until they couldn’t. Then they apparently lied some more in the bankruptcy and the rest will be determined in a court of law. Most people who get mortgage loans don’t provide fraudulent documents. Most banks and mortgage companies don’t purposefully make fraudulent loans. One couple from New Jersey, almost 5 million in fraudulent loans….if proven guilty, and I doubt these 39 indictments are frivolous, they should be on a poster as an example of the face of the housing and banking collapse. And think of people like them when you try to sell you house and realize you can’t because you now owe more on it than it’s worth. Think of them when you legitimately apply for a loan and feel like you’re being treated with suspicion or when you are denied. Now, open your eyes or continue to look like fools for defending them.

    • I think posters who defend the Giudices have read the indictment, whippet, but they also understand that the indictment is a list of unproven allegations, nothing more, nothing less. Wesley Snipes comes to mind as a quick example of someone was completely acquitted of all of the criminal allegations in the federal indictment against him except for the failure to file income tax returns, which the jury knocked down to a misdemeanor.

      So, yeah, I think posters defending the Giudices are people who have read both the indictment and the U.S. Constitution, which in the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendments create the presumption of innocence until someone is PROVEN guilty.

      • Right RMG! Not justifying or anything, but constitutionally speaking, there is a case to be made that filing a tax return is un-constitutional! One of my close friends is a tax attorney, and she gets people off all the time b/c of that. Not saying it’s right, but at the federal level it’s a fact. Not sure about state level, though.

      • Funny how that pretty speech seems to only apply to the Guidices and no one else.

      • I know you are passionate about the presumption of innocence and I admire that, but we are allowed to talk about what we think about the case and weither we feel they are guilty.

        • Of course we are Lisa. And I’d agree that the Giudices are guilty of somethings, but we can’t go saying they are necessarily guilty of 39 counts until we see the trial/evidence. I think I would say the same about Tre as I would Jaq or anyone else, there’s always fire where you see smoke, but let’s wait and see how big the fire is. There is a ton of flim flam con man bs on this hw show especially, it’s like watching a car accident you can’t look away from. Lol. Tre n Juicy are not model citizens, but let’s discuss what may happen instead of calling other posters fools if we don’t agree…

          • Being fools has nothing to do with disagreeing on what may happen with these charges, it has to do with those that choose to ignore the severity of these charges or understand what they are. This isn’t some partner suing Juicy Joe for forging his signature, this isn’t even about the State of NJ case with Joe. This is the FEDS. Not only have you admitted the Giudice’s are not model citizen’s while throwing in Jaq’s name as deflection, but you continue to defend someone whose behavior on the show alone is indefensible. The Giudice’s have given a roadmap of their deeds on this show and many can’t see it….but I’m sure the Feds did. And if the Feds came knocking on your door during an investigation, most would answer their questions honestly. But to the Tre and Joe lovers, if Carolyn, Jaq, Melissa or anyone else on the show “talked” it must be all their fault. It was probably their fault that Joe called Teresa a c*nt on national television too. Joe and Teresa aren’t victims here, nor are their fans. But their I’ll-behaved children certainly are for more reasons than being pimped out by their parents for wealth and fame. Regardless of the result of these indictments, those children will be affected for the rest of their lives because of their own and their parents behavior on this show. Shame on the Giudices for putting wealth and fame ahead of those 4 innocent girls.

            • So…. if someone disagrees with you, they are a fool? You are saying anyone not seeing this as “severe” as you do is wrong….and a fool….There’s just no need to make blanket statements saying that others are fools here. No one needs to use Jaq as deflection, it’s just painfully obvious this entire cast, (other than Rosie), has illegal doings, Jaq’s and Tre’s are hitting the fan now. If you say a duck is a duck when it’s a Giudice, then all these crooked ducks are, well, ducks. It’s not “defending” to say, hey let’s wait and see what sticks. How many times do people get charged with many things but some charges get dropped? All day every day.

            • And again the deflection from the Giudice supporters. I thought this was a discussion about the charges against the Giudices not allegations against other housewives. And yes, people get charged with many things every day…but not Federal indictments. The current ducks in trouble are the Giudices. The fools aren’t those who disagree with me on the outcome, it’s those who are so charmed by the Giudices that they lack all common sense or knowlege of how serious these charges are.

            • Sigh… You are SO excited to talk about how severe this is and label people “fools” and “Giudice supporters” that you are not able to discuss or consider common sense. This is a tv show, we are allowed to talk about each hw in comparison to their co-stars. Pretty much this entire cast is shady in one way or another. It is what it is. Rant about Tre today, everyone will rant about Jaq or Mego tomorrow..

            • Calling people “fools” isn’t necessary to make a point in a discussion. We can have discussions about the charges without resorting to name calling. Also, children are off limits on SH so commenting on the “ill-behaved children” is also unnecessary to make a point.

            • Agreed Chem. Idk why some have to get on the name calling and insulting train ..it derails the real conversation and wastes time.

            • The thing kelli is i use to get jumped on and harrassed when i brought Teresa name into conversations that were not about her, now the tables are turned nd now is perfectly ok to bring the others into a conversation about teresa funny how is wrong when i did it and now its honky dory…

            • Ya but the thing is, I am saying ALL these people are crooked, Jaq being the one involved in a suit now. But I think some stuff may come down the pipeline for others too, I think Mego is gonna have a messy foreclosure/bankruptcy, and I think Kathy is livin beyond her means too. Caroline with her apartment is odd too.. I don’t hate one of these broads any more than the next, I am sayin they all are scummy posers. Then someone says, hey don’t “deflect” off of Teresa!!! I am not deflecting, anyone watchin this show can agree that these people are all financial morons.

            • i know what you are saying and trust me i agree but thats the way it was with me to, we would be talking about something someone did and ii would remind people teresa did the samething and i would get a bunch of rude post telling me that the subject wasnt teresa and bringing her name into it is deflecting..

            • I don’t think you were deflecting, you were projecting and proffessing that you disliked Tre. At least that’s how I’m recollecting. Lol.

      • Ok, you all just keep on telling yourselves that! Juicy Joe and Tre count on people like you to keep them on the show!

  13. RealMafiaGrandmother,
    Wesley Snipes was just realeased from prison after being sentenced to 3 years for a tax scheme to collect huge refunds by filing amended returns and not filing returns for 3 years. I didn’t know a misdemeanor sent you to the slammer for 3 years! He had 8 indictments, the Giudices each have 39. You do the math. And of course they are innocent until proven guilty as a court of law will determine, but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck and has previously been found guilty as a duck and has other current court cases coming as a duck, then likely, it’s a duck.

    • There are federal sentencing guidelines that, in combination with any previous convictions, govern the amount of time someone convicted of a tax crime will do. As I recall, Mr. Snipes had earned something like $38 million in the time period for which he did not file returns although I do not think all of that was ultimately considered taxable income.

      I actually have “done the math” with respect to the Giudices but, even if they were convicted on all counts — and for Tre there are only 34 counts, if I remember correctly, since she has not been charged with failing to file a tax return — but there are a lot of intangibles that make it difficult to calculate with any real accuracy. This is partially because judges doing the sentencing with respect to the bankruptcy fraud charges will have some discretion and then there are other issues like whether sentences for the various crimes will run concurrently (i.e., they start at the same time) or consecutively (i.e., the sentences run one after another, with a sentence beginning only after the previous sentence ends). The general rule is that they will run concurrently but a judge can order something else.

      Based on some assumptions my GUESSTIMATE is that a more realistic number of the years Joe could do is about 9.5 years, including good time.

      And I honestly cannot see any time for Tre; I just can’t see it. I have not seen all the evidence, of course, but I have some serious questions about whether the feds can prove a case against Tre. Once you factor in her defenses and the fact that, just as there are differences of opinion on this board, the jury would likely be very split as well, the chance of a unanimous jury verdict against Tre seem — to me — to be slim to none. I’m just not seeing it.

      With respect to Joe, however, even 9.5 years is still a TON of time and, if it were me, I would seriously consider any plea bargain for less time that included a non-prosecution agreement with respect to Tre. That’s just me, though. It was reported that Joe refused any plea bargain in his driver’s license case that included doing any amount of time at all and I always thought that, if true, it was pretty ambitious. I do not, however, have any feel AT ALL of what a NJ jury would do with Joe so, while I’m not really “feeling” a successful outcome for him — and it should be mentioned that he hasn’t even had an opportunity to put forward a defense, so I have no idea how successful it might be — I’m sure his lawyer will provide him with a FAR more accurate view of the merits of his defense as well as the any plea bargain that might be offered than anyone else.

      JMHO!!!!

      • Everyone is focused on Joe’s failure to pay his taxes when that particular charge is the least of his worries. Certainly the easiest to prove, but the least penalty of any of the other charges. The bankruptcy fraud was already discovered which was why it was denied by the courts. The most serious charges are those of fraud pertaining to the acquisition of the almost 5 million in mortgage debt, which doesn’t include the $260,000+ judgment in the case already won against Joe by his business partner. And it’s difficult to imagine his defense to fraudulent tax returns, w-2′s and paystubs provided to secure those loans. If there is a tax return in any of those loan files for a year that the Giudice’s didn’t file with the IRS there is no defense. And Teresa can’t claim innocence because each loan application listing her fake employment and income would have been signed by her at closing. if Joe falsified the paperwork then Teresa would have noticed at the closing. By signing she verified the information as accurate. The only defense she could have is that someone posing as her signed the documents and she wasn’t aware of the loans at all which doesn’t seem plausible as 3-4 mortgages were on her Jersey Shore home. An attorney in another article said she already admitted during bankruptcy proceedings or the patner’s case that she signed loan documents. The only scenario where Teresa gets off on the fraud issues is if she can prove her signature was forged on every mortgage she has in her name.
        I suspect there were so many indictments and charges at once to show a pattern of deception by the couple in numerous legal proceedings.

        • I agree with you that the failure to file tax returns is the easiest to prove but even that’s not a slam dunk as the feds will have to prove that Joe had income sufficient to require him to file a tax return. Loan proceeds are not taxable income so, if they were living off the proceeds of the loans, it’s possible he didn’t have enough income to require him to file. While I think that the feds will likely be able to make their case on that point, it’s possible for that to be reduced from a felony to a misdemeanor, which is what the failure to file is normally considered to be and which was the result in Snipes. That will reduce the amount of time associated with the crime. The amount of time one does for a tax crime also varies depending on the amount of unreported income so, if the feds have overstated the amount of income and Joe can knock it down, he would also do less time.

          Bankruptcy fraud was not “proven” in the bankruptcy case. I’m not going to go through the laundry list of elements the feds will have to persuade a jury to unanimously agree upon beyond a reasonable doubt but it’s my opinion that, with respect to Tre, that’ll never happen; I just don’t think that, with respect to her, they can prove all the elements. (Remember, the prosecutors have the burden of proof here. Snipes is a good example of that in that he was completely vindicated of all charges other than the failure to file tax returns without putting on a single witness; the feds simply could not make their case. Also keep in mind that 97% of that vaunted 98% conviction rate results from plea bargains; one-third of the people who go to trial get off.) The statutory punishment for bankruptcy fraud, by the way, is a maximum of five years imprisonment. Even if Joe’s sentenced to the maximum, the five year sentence(s) can run concurrently and be less than the time Joe would do with respect to the tax return charges.

          With respect to the alleged bank fraud, the oldest charge looks to be outside the 10-year statute of limitations. Loan applications, by the way, aren’t signed at closing and, in this case, they were sent by mail. Don’t know where you got your info that Tre admitted signing the loan documents; can you provide a link or Google search terms? Tre, by the way, doesn’t have to prove her signature was forged on every mortgage she has in her name; the indictment only includes five mortgage transactions, including the one I think is out of statute, and I don’t think Tre was a party in at least one of the others. .

          Again, JMHO, but this is much more complicated than many people think.

          Also, if you’re worried about Tre “getting off” I can assure you that that will not be the case; she and the children will suffer greatly if Juicy goes to jail, as I believe he will. I have shared on this board previously that my father died when I was 2 years old and my sister was 3. Raising two little girls alone was extremely difficult for my mother; Tre will be responsible for raising four. My mother told me recently that she quite deliberately hid her tears and cried only when she was alone in her bedroom at night; I have no doubt that Tre will do the same. And the girls will suffer his absence not only as my sister and I did but will also have to endure the public shame of having a parent in prison as well. My mother’s brothers were of great assistance to her but Tre’s brother is a complete idiot and, assuming he isn’t imprisoned himself, will be of no help to her. Tre’s father may well die while Juicy is “away” and, while I cannot imagine how she will get through that loss without the comfort and support of her husband, she will have to. And then there is also the matter of forfeiture; any plea bargain will likely include a substantial penalty that could leave Tre and the girls impoverished as well.

          Please rest assured in the knowledge then that, even if Tre is legally exonerated, you will indeed get your pound of flesh.

          • Oh poor poor Teresa she may have to get a real job and live in a home that dosnt resemble a Tomb and GASP it maybe a home someone else lived in.
            Teresa will have to drive a Toyota instead of a Lincoln nav or that fancy Corvette juicy is driving around town in. Poor Poor teresa will have to live like normal law abiding folks and about time she does understand her days of being spoiled diva are over

            • I doubt it Lisa. If she gets outta doin time she will still work whatever businesses she has left and still be on rhonj. Maybe she can live with Mego and we can watch them fight all the time…lol.

            • or come back more popular than ever, raising her kids, starting new life. best storyline ever

            • But she would convince her fans that she wanted to get that real job, that the small house she’s living in is really her weekday home and that she lives in the mansion on the weekend and that her Lincoln and Vette were stolen by Joe and Melissa because they couldn’t afford their own cars. Being such a wonderful kind-hearted person, she didn’t press charges against her brother and sis-in-law because she loves them so much and then informs her fans that the Toyota is less pretentious, and she has never ever had the need for expensive things, And her fans will believe her! LOL!

            • Well ya know, I would totally believe her about the Toyota. In this day, it looks crappy and not eco-friendly driving big gas guzzlers. I saw a Hummer today and thought, what an inconsiderate idiot! Conspicuous consumption is soooo ’90′s!

            • will poison joe nd melissa help his parents out, since its poison joes fault, that they lost home, because he took loan out on it?

  14. I don’t worry at all about the Giudices. They deserve all that is coming their way. I feel sorry for their children who will pay the worst price. While your mother sounds like a wonderful woman her tears should be applauded for all she did. Teresa’s tears will mean nothing.
    The Feds could extend the statute of limitations to begin when the fraud was discovered. The bankruptcy was denied because of the belief that income and assets were withheld. That alleged fraud will likely be proven in court.
    And yes, you do sign a final loan application at closing on mortgages. Every. Single. Time. It makes no difference if done by mail or in a closing office but it is ALWAYS part of the closing process. And as I said before…if the Giudices provided a tax return as their proof of income on a mortgage loan and did not file that return with the IRS then the fraud is easily proven. It matters not if they didnt have sufficient income to file. That would be their sole purpose for presenting a fraudulent return for the loan in the first place! They will lose on either the failure to file or the fraud for sure. They can’t defend it both ways. The fraud to secure the mortgages is the big charge with the stiffest penalties (wire and mail fraud). In the history known publically about the Giudices these charges were the most surprising and totally unknown. I believe that’s where the Feds have their best chance at conviction or a nasty plea deal for the Giudices. Plea deals don’t mean innocence

  15. I don’t relish getting a “pound of flesh.” If Teresa is convicted it will be for her own choices and greed. The irony is that the very show that brought her fame could be what brings her down. The Giudice’s actions on the show will be and likely have been scrutinized already. She sold her soul to be the most popular. It’s a real pattern on these shows. The first season is relatively calm but by the second season at least one of the housewives engages in really over-the-top behavior, (although the table flip in season one showed that Teresa learned the Bravo way to fame early.). Jill Zarin and Tamra Barney are other perfect examples. The more outrageous the better.
    And again, as usual, we have the …Teresa’s brother is a complete idiot and assuming he isn’t imprisoned also won’t be any help comment….and you are positive of this why? 39 indictments against Teresa and Joe and you defend their chances of getting off. No indictments against Joe Gorga and you assume to think he could face imprisonment. No biases there! And he wouldn’t be any help? Have you forgotten how much Gia loved her Uncle Joe? How close everyone said they were? I guess Gia is only crazy about complete idiots.

          • When the Gorgas and Laritas are in federal court on fraud charges you will have a point. Until then, there is no comparison to the charges of the theft of millions by the Giudices. But if you can’t spot that you’ve been played by the Giudices already I doubt that even prison time will help you see the light. You do realize that the fraud they are accused of committing costs you and me, right? Never heard of pogo.

            • no it is a different whippet i know from pogo games. put jacko\s and chris name in search, you can read for yourself what they are charged with, all fed crimes, then they also have the assualt charged sept 5th

            • Any links to those federal indictments against the Lauritas? Google doesn’t seem to show them. I know they have business bankruptcy issues and suits but can’t find any federal indictments yet. Doesn’t mean there won’t be some in the future but I don’t see any now.

            • i don’t use google i just put names in aol search and list of stuff comes up then i click one i want to read

  16. Since google has more information than AOL, I assume you aren’t reading actual indictments or media articles that link to federal indictments of the Lauritas, but articles at other blogs, etc that wishfully have decided that the Lauritas have beem indicted, truth be damned?

    • whippet: For info re the Laurita’s case, pls enter “Signature Apparel” in the SH search bar. We’ve been following the Laurita case for over two years… long before other sites picked up on it. Happy reading!! TFC!! SH

  17. SH has screenshots of court docs, etc….all before they sealed the case – talks about Chris destroying evidence – is caught and pleads guiltyto purgery. Good read-based on FACTS –

    • I will ask again. Are the “FACTS” that there are currently Federal indictments against the Lauritas and I am not finding them in the research, or are there none and these “FACTS” you speak of are not facts at all? it appears to me the Laurita case is still in the investigation phase which means Federal indictments could or could not be pending.
      The whole purpose of my discussion here is that the actual Federal indictments against the Giudices are real and that many Giudice supporters are attempting to deflect from the serious nature of the charges by claiming the Laurita’s are just as bad. (as if that would make the Giudices less criminal).

      • Which is funny because I use to get harrassed by the tre huggers when I brought up there misdeeds when another HW was being discussed . I guess its ok when THEY do it.

        • I guess it makes sense that their fans are like that since Teresa and Juicy Joe always blame someone else for everything even when it comes out of their own mouths!

      • Whippet: The Laurita case is much more complicated and involved than that of the Joodice case, as the Laurita case tried to hide behind the corporate veil. There really is no comparison between the two cases. So far, there have been NO indictments in the Laurita case. Pls enter “Signature Apparel” in the SH search bar if you need further info. TFC!!! SH

        • Thanks. I already did the search and found mostly what I already knew. My point here is that there is no comparison, at this point, and those who choose to deflect from the Giudice charges to what’s going on with the Lauritas are simply deflecting to protect their blinded view of the Giudices. Until there are Federal indictments of the Lauritas the family currently in the most trouble is the Giudices. And the Giudice supporters continue to point to indictments of the Lauritas that don’t exist. They believe whatever the Giudices say even when faced with Federal indictments and look for excuses for their behavior and then claim they have the facts. It’s actually quite revealing about the Giudice supporters. I seriously doubt they will excuse the Lauritas if indictments come their way in the future. Apparently to be a Giudice supporter you have to have a double standard even when serious federal indictments are in place.

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