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TERESA GIUDICE, JOE GIUDICE UPDATE: $1Million Bond… Passports Surrendered… Juicy Subject To Drug Testing, Possible Deportation… Arraignment August 14… Juicy’s Parents Tell Reporters “F Off” “Go To Hell”!

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After appearing in a New Jersey federal court Tuesday morning, reality TV stars Teresa and Giuseppe “Joe” Giudice were each released on $500,000 unsecured appearance bonds.

Neither Teresa nor Joe entered pleas; and an arraignment was set for August 14.   Teresa Giudice’s lawyer, Henry Klingeman, said yesterday that she would plead “not guilty.”

In a packed courtroom, the couple stared straight ahead as they heard major charges read aloud from the 39-count indictment. The charges include conspiracy to commit mail and wire fraud, bank fraud, making false statements on loan applications and bankruptcy fraud.   NOTE:  Read the indictment at Justice.gov.

The reality stars must turn over their passports and stay in New York and New Jersey, according to the terms of the bail.

Joe Giudice, who is not a U.S. citizen, is subject to drug testing, reports TMZ. Teresa Giudice will not be subjected to drug tests.

AND… from the NYDailyNews:

“None of your f—–g business,” she [Juicy's mother, Filomena] snapped, when a reporter asked about the prospect of her boy being booted out of the country. “Worry about yourself.

“Go to hell,” Giudice’s father barked.

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249 comments on “TERESA GIUDICE, JOE GIUDICE UPDATE: $1Million Bond… Passports Surrendered… Juicy Subject To Drug Testing, Possible Deportation… Arraignment August 14… Juicy’s Parents Tell Reporters “F Off” “Go To Hell”!

  1. Melissa is going to have to raise the 4 girls when they go to jail. That will be Tre’s real punishment.

    • Melissa hated those girls just last week she yelled and hung up the phone on Gia. F Melissa she is not a good aunt Joe sister can raise the girls.

    • Prob Pete Giudice actually but it WOULD be payback if Melissa had a bunch of kids calling her a pole dancer! LOL

    • Teresa’s mother in law and mother will not allow Melissa to raise their grand daughters, what makes you think Teresa will give up custody of her daughters to that skank

      • If she is in Jail she will have no other choice, The kids will be wards of the state and family court will decide who raises them unless a agreement is reached prior.. I am sure Someone on the Guidice side will be willing to step up.

        • Lisa, you’re back!!!! originalcyn1 just mentioned you yesterday (her “wingman”) and I thought of how much I missed you!

          IF Tre is convicted and IF she has to do any time, she will have plenty of opportunity to make custody arrangements for her children.

          • Thank you, I got disenchanted by the way the Tre huggers came after me when I mentioned the OH SO Perfect Teresa. After the News broke I thought it might be the right time to make a appereance back here, If i was a mean person id say I TOLD YOU SO, but I am better then that after all ;)

            • Lisa the Irish Dragon, Welcome back!!! You were missed sooo much. I was called out for not being a Tree lover so I get you. and you are BETTER than all of that., You are not a mean person, you are a sweet person who always told your truth and opinion.

              • who do u think made a deal. the lauritas/ manzos. they would make a deal w/devil
                if it would benefit themselves. i think this is probably the end of rhnj. i do not think
                bravo can hire tre, if she is under indictment. and we all know, tre is the show.
                won’t they all be in shock; when they find out just how unimportant they are to the
                show. karma, karma.

              • Lisa the Dragon, here we go again…. Now it is every one else’s fault but Tre and Joe, the poor, poor innocent victims who spent millions of fraudulent money and then tried to file bankruptcy so they wouldn’t have to pay back the money they stole. Unbelievable the other cast-mates are already getting blamed for the Tre’s and Joe’s illegal activities 10 yrs before the show even started!

            • Hi Lisa! Hope Flossie’s not giving you any trouble! I was hoping you’d poke you’re head back in. I was gone for a while myself (health issues) and when I came back you were gone :(! Glad to see you again!

              • Hey Blue dorito chip I hope you are better now, Flossie showed her fury on Maui mostly by the time it got to me It was just heavy rain and some lightening I slept through it.

          • I’ve been so sick over what’s going on… truly.. that I will not watch that show any longer.. if I see her relatives i’m afraid i’ll slap the tv and break it… :):) So disturbing.. and their all SO DEVIOUS… I don’t think she can even plea bargain here.. yet I will admit I only watched the show since I genuinely like only her.. and Dina… there’s no reason to watch and esp. have to look at her brother’s face and his jerk of a wife… but NJ…. sadly if they were never on this show.. things may have gone easier on this.. but this is a fiasco.. and I truly believe the cast was in on it with the feds.. just can’t shake the feeling.. so I hope their all investigated also… trust me when I say.. if they broke the law.. you have to “pay” I don’t care who you are… but this hate fest.. that andy cohen encourages against this family makes me so sick… NO MORE NJ PLEASE!!

    • No way. Grandparents would take the girls first. MeGo has her own hell — coming soon to blogs near you!

      • I’m not saying this because I think Teresa is right, I’ve said many many times she’s wrong. I do think without her the show would be a giant snoozefest, I know I wouldn’t watch. In saying that, there is absolutely no way I would leave my children in Melissa’s care. I’m sure Teresa won’t either. There are plenty of people who can care for those children if it comes down to both of them serving prison time. Until the details come out of the sentencing, I would say speculation of where her children will go is a bit premature. Since she has no prior criminal past, they could even put her on house arrest. Oh and that’s if she has to serve. Personally, I think she will, but you never know in this crazy world.

  2. Wow, mamma Giudice (Joe’s mom) left loose with the F bomb when she was asked if Joe would be deported!

    “Joe Giudice, whose real first name is Giuseppe, is an Italian citizen and could face deportation in convicted, the judge and prosecutors noted.

    That didn’t sit well with his mom, Filomena.”

    “None of your f—–g business,” she snapped, when a reporter asked about the prospect of her boy being booted out of the country. “Worry about yourself.”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/

    • “The family is handling themselves with great dignity,” said the attorney. All except Frank. What disgusting pictures of JG’s father. They be straight from Italy but they sure have the Angry American lingo down pat.

        • Done, I respectfully disagree, the F*** is just a word, though, what has it to do or not do with dignity–the universe doesn’t care about the word F***.

          • vish: And I respectfully disagree. Part of the universe does indeed care about nasty words. I have NEVER heard my parents or my entire family use those words, even in anger, but then again, they all had a great command of the english language. ;)

    • TV Junkie, my grand parents came straight from Italy and didnt speak a word of english, but they made a effort to speak and understand ” english” as they would say “America english because we are so lucky to be in America” so they taught themselves with willing help from their children & grandchildren to learn english and to speak it most of all., and guess what they did speak english ( like a dis a kind of a the english) but they worked so hard with books and my family to learn and best of all to them ” to speak english”. So I do not feel sorry for Joes mom or dad for not understanding english…or to give an excuse for behaving badly.

      • Joe’s dad looks like that guy who ran ABC with that crazy whackado wife on Kitchen Nightmares!

    • No me. Well kind of. For years I’ve been wondering if he was a US citizen since they had talked about him having been born in Italy. All of her supporters have always told people to shut up and MTOB. Now we know for sure. The INS will be stepping in soon.

  3. I’m curious why Joe would be eligible for drug testing. Does that mean they think he might be taking them? Also, why is he still not a US citizen? Didn’t he grow up with Tre? Lots of shady stuff going on here. I’ve always been team Tre, but the law is the law. If you break it, there are consequences.

  4. The headlines to this article says “possible deportation” – Did you make this up? Really this is bad enough without adding insult to injury.

    • Several news outlets are reporting that because Joe is not a US citizen. I would guess that would be only in the event he is convicted and after time served.

    • Joe is not a citizen. Since that’s the case he could face deportation if convicted after serving his sentence.

  5. Since Joe is an illegal I wonder if his parents are also illegal. I also wonder if Joe and Teresa would even have an option of who will raise their children fi they are convicted. What a big ass hole they have dug.

    • He may not be illegal. It’s possible his parents, siblings and himself have Permanent Resident Visas however at this time we do not know. INS needs to step in if they haven’t already but INS will wait their turn after the IRS has had their turn.

    • My guess is they are Sherry but it is a guess. This MESS that Joe & Tree created is now going deeper than they expected and it is a big azz hole they have dug.

    • Whoa, whoa, whoa, Sherry — no has said Joe is here illegally! He’s just not a U.S. citizen. Many people reside legally in the U.S. who are not citizens. Let’s not take the crazy to a whole new level here!

      • With all due respect Real, I was merely commenting on what CNN and Fox News reported early this morning. Saying I’m taking crazy to another level is uncalled for.

        • Sherry- there is a big difference between someone being a citizen of another country and being in the US illegally. People are responding to your statement, “Since Joe is an illegal…”.

        • Errrrrt, Sherry is not taking any crazy or talking any crazy. She was watching CNN as I was and that is what ( THEY) said not her. Saying Sherry is taking crazy to another level is uncalled for and mean to say the least.

          • Who are you people who take what TV pundits and titty bitch reporters say as gospel? Did I wake up in 1984??

            • Bullie, sometimes people hear what they want to hear and I suspect that’s probably what happened here.

              In April of this year CNN adopted the AP’s new guidelines that state, “Except in direct quotes essential to the story, use illegal only to refer to an action, not a person.”

        • Surely you don’t take ANYTHING Fox news gives out as truthful info do you? They never get any story straight. Real is right, he is here legally, just not a citizen. Just a little xtra note, when it comes to the legal system here in NJ, you may as well be in foriegn country.

          • Ooh, yeah, let’s now believe that his visa is current and truthful, because he was so honest about everything else in his life!!!! When are these Tre-huggers gonna face reality??? I agree that she and her hubby could be a tad charming, and amongst the pool of scum they’re in regarding the show, they’re amusing, however their track records to date are pretty darned bad. I think he’s an ILLEGAL.

            • It should be cancelled. Maybe another channel could start a legitimate series on wealthy people, but then again, the truly wealthy don’t like to blab about their wealth! Maybe it’s time to go back to night time soaps like “Dynasty,” where it’s all fiction. Those were the days!

    • I agree. These charges are serious and the talk of jail time and who may take care of the 4 kids is just so very troubling and sad. So much for my “reality” escape.

  6. Wells Fargo denied my request for a credit limit increase on my Visa card, but these jokers get loans and mortgages with phony documentation. Only in America.

    • Well according to some EVERYONE cheats the goverment and its no big deal to falsify W2 so go get yer self some fake W2s (i understand you can download them off the internet ) and go make up fake job and I bet Wells fargo will give ya what you want..I mean EVERYONE DOES IT

      • Countrywide did it all the time, fast and sleazy loan program, but some are too big to jail,
        like JP Morgan Chase, Goldman Sachs et al.

        • I dont cheat the goverment and I do not agree what-so ever to those that do. I do not make a lot of money but I still have to pay my fair share of them to the US goverment. If I didnt file my taxes from 2004- 2009 I would of been taxed more with a heavy fee or in jail…who does that ( not file income tax for 6yrs) and thinks its ok?

          • “Who does that (not file income tax for 6yrs) and thinks its ok?”

            I guess you missed the H&R Block commercial that ran this past spring, maythel, where the cute little bow-tie wearing tax preparer is showered with receipts and says something like, “Sure, I can help you even if you haven’t filed in X years?”

            (I’m sorry I can’t remember the exact number of years; I just remember when I heard it thinking that it was beyond the statute of limitations and H&R Block wasn’t going to get you your tax refund back for those years!)

            So many people do it, they ADVERTISE for them!

            But of course I agree with you that EVERYBODY SHOULD FILE THEIR TAX RETURNS ON A TIMELY BASIS AND REPORT ALL THEIR INCOME!

            • Why are you screaming at me RMG? I was talking about Tree & PJoe! Wow…are you really that angry at me or angry at these people you speak of? I can understand when you’re young you can forget to file you’re taxes but after a certain age and having a family ( with dependents to even write off on your taxes) you ” Forget to do that for 6-7 years)?!?

              • Sorry, maythel, I didn’t intend my remarks to be interpreted as screaming and in fact I was laughing remembering that commercial when I wrote it. Again, apparently there are so many potential customers out there, H&R Block has targeted an ad right to them

                But just FYI, there truly are a lot of people who need to file and don’t and they frequently for more than one year.

                And in my experience the reason is almost invariably this — somehow, someway, they’ve lost their paperwork. They lost their home in a fire. They had a flood. They were burgled. They moved. They misplaced their W-2 and their employer is now out of business. Their bank was sold. Paperwork was in a car and the car was sold. Etc., etc., etc., etc.

                They feel like they can’t file a return because they don’t have the information necessary to file accurately and, once they haven’t filed one year, then they feel like they can’t file the next year — or the next or the next — because of that missing year! So it ends up hanging over them like a terrible dark cloud until somehow they screw up their courage, get some money ahead and/or have some life-changing event that requires them to seek help.

                And just FYI, this same thing happens to people who have refunds coming as well as who owe balances — and the ones with the refunds lose their refunds to the IRS forever if they wait too long!

                So what should a person do if they lose — or they never get — the paperwork they need to file an accurate return? See a tax preparer right away. There are ways to get the information or disclose it on the return; you just need someone who knows what they’re doing to help you. See a tax preparer right away and get that terrible burden off you back!

                So again — the reason for the capital letters — people need to file their returns and report all their income!

              • Bullie, very true, but that is not saying 50% doesn’t file tax returns, that is saying that most people get more back than they pay. People with children and lower income typically do not pay anything into the system.

            • I’ve been reading some of these comments and am wondering if people are confusing state income with federal taxes.

          • maythel: I’ve heard the same sentiment from non-U.S.-born people here!!!!!!!! For some strange reason, they think they could omit paying their taxes and get to it when they can!! Umm, no, you get extensions, you make payment schedules, etc.., but you ALWAYS file if you owe anything!!!!!!!!!

              • Yup, I agree!!!!!!!! I shant name names, but someone in my husband’s circle thought that she could just put off paying and her only fine would be that when she finally filed, she’d have to pay everything back. WRONG. I’m amazed that she isn’t in jail. Then again, she lied on her taxes when she finally did submit them! Yikes!

        • Goldman Sachs is an investment bank and was very far removed from the biz dealings of Countrywide as was JP Morgan. Countrywide isn’t anywhere close to being in the same league.

          • Was clear to me that Skidly clearly separated C-wide from others. And given Goldmans’ dealings (e.g. credit default swaps and even more abstract financial instruments derived from same), I also get the scalar link and take-home point Skidly was making, without getting into every player in the collapse. Else, we’d be here all decade…

  7. I hope they get punished for what they have done, these are serious crimes!

    It’s a shame really but us living outside of the U.S think your justice system is a joke since the only thing we read about concerning it is when celebrities commit crimes and just get’s a slap on the hand.

    Btw, this is my first time posting, love this site!

    xo Elle

    • Welcome, Elle!

      While it certainly has its limitations, one of the best things about the U.S. justice system is that people are innocent until proven guilty. In this case the government has only gotten an indictment, which means that the defense hasn’t yet had a chance to offer any defense whatsoever.

      In tax cases the federal government has about an 80% chance of securing a conviction.
      Only about 80% of the people convicted, however, actually do time in prison. (Federal prisons in the U.S. come in three varieties — maximum security, for those considered most dangerous, and medium and minimum security, which is where white collar criminals tend to be imprisoned.) Significantly, this means that 20% of people indicted are not convicted and 36% of people who are indicted are not do no do jail time. Not the best odds but enough to say that neither of these outcomes is assured.

      You’re definitely right about the focus on celebrity prosecutions, however. They garner big headlines so the government is more inclined to prosecute celebrities in order to “send a message” to the rest of us that we better toe the line!

      With respect to the slap on the wrist, well, we are a pretty civilized country in that our prison system balances punishment with rehabilitation and cruel and unusual punishment is prohibited under our Constitution. And because economics kind of drive the country to a large part, the high cost to keep a prisoner incarcerated commonly results in sentence modifications (i.e., parole or house arrest) that significantly reduce the amount of time in prison a person actually does. These same economic considerations are also factors underlying a decision to deport a non-citizen who is convicted of a federal crime.

      Hope this helps a bit! What country are you from?

      • Having gone to law school with a guy who co-mingled funds and who did time in FL for that crime alone, I can see Joe going to federal prison for a while. He will probably be in minimum security as he should be as he doesn’t pose much of a risk. White-collar criminals inside with him will probably be an education for him because this just wasn’t a bright move on his part, flaunting extraordinary wealth on TV while claiming relatively low income. Come on, Joe!

        • Oh, the lack of brightness. All I can think of is that splayed wad of cash S1 furniture shopping. Maybe because the whole financial system (? and their social network in general) was so messy back then, they never entertained repercussions from going on TV?

          • Supposedly Bravo gave her that wad of cash so she could make a “statement” while shopping. Pretty sure Teresa said that herself.

            • Thanks for the info, Jersey. At the time, it seemed like a way to attract unwanted attention. That explanation causes me to have deeper concerns about Bravo, given what they must have known.

      • BTW, when I was referring to parole I was referring to the broader U.S. criminal justice system. With respect to federal law, only criminals whose crimes predate 1987 are eligible for parole under the federal system, with a few exceptions not applicable here.

        Federal prisoners do, however, accrue what’s called “good conduct time” that reduces the time that they serve. Prisoners serving more than one year in prison get 54 days a year of good time for every year they serve.

        • The fact is you all keep forgetting they both were charged with Mail, Wire, and Bank Fraud … Bank Fraud alone carries a 30 year sentence maximum … So the taxes is the least of his worries .. They both more than likely will do time .. I personally know 3 people who last year went to prison for way less than this (1 count of bank fraud etc).. They charged them with 39 counts .. they will get them on at least 2 or more … The US GOV could care less about them having kids .. Martha Stewart is White ..a Woman .. and a self made billionaire and they still threw her butt in prison for 1 year .. and all she did was “move her own damn money” or as they like to say “insider trading” … trust me this is serious and they BOTH will do some time .. Teresa may do 2 years or less .. but she was charged with the same thing he was (minus the taxes) .. so she is just as guilty … This is 2013 … the “I’m just the wife I did what my husband told me ” will not fly anymore …
          After 2008 Housing Crime done by the higher ups President Obama made a special team of people to only go after this kind of fraud .. That is all they do all day every day… In federal Court there really is no “innocent until proven guilty” they do not even come after you UNLESS they know you are Guilty that is why their conviction rates are so high…. Most people do go to jail for these crimes .. very few walk

          • Dayum Duh you are right about the Mail, Wire, and Bank Fraud charges! The Guidices better pack their bags.

          • Respectfully, I think what you need to understand is that while they have both been charged with certain crimes, as of this date neither of them have been convicted of any crimes and that one is just as entitled to the presumption of innocence in federal court as well as in state court.

            You also need to understand that there are minimum sentences as well as maximum sentences and that there is a huge difference between convicting a single white woman billionaire famous for her business acumen and who once worked as a stockbroker with insider trading and convicting Teresa Giudice with bank/mail fraud. Federal juries are made up of the same jurors that populate state juries and the feds will need to prove that TERESA had criminal intent when right now they might not even be able to prove that she was even the one who signed the loan applications.

            (Recall that Joe was already found to have forged his partner’s name and to have falsified loan documents; it seems highly likely that he would have done the same with Teresa.)

            They’ll never convict Tre and they know they’ll never convict her; they’re just charging her as leverage to get Joe to plea bargain. Although I know it really, really spoils a lot of people’s hopes, there’s no way Teresa will be convicted or do time.

          • Then why doesn’t anyone throw steven “SAC” cohen in jail? He’s almost as much of a fraud as Bernie madoff, except he makes money for ppl by insider trading, and madoff didn’t make a penny.

          • Yes you are correct!! 39 counts is not pretty. And the Obama Administration has made it a priority to go after these type of people. And when the Feds come knocking when they know their case is iron clad. Even if they don’t get all 39, they still are looking at jail time.

    • Greetings to you, Elle! I suspect many of the comments on this topic will relate to the celebrity prosecution issue. But more so over why some are prosecuted or pursued more aggressively while others are not. Selective enforcement of laws occurs at all levels. I would guess this happens all over the world, for a variety of practical and other, more nefarious reasons.

    • IF they are guilty, then they should be prosecuted. Thank you for commenting for the entire world outside of the USA – I am sure every single person outside of the US thinks our justice system is a joke. What country are you in? Please tell me how many Americans are emigrating to your country? Oh not a whole lot….well, guess our joke of a country isn’t that awful… Take care love.

  8. Ii am so sad. if juicy got deported, teresa would go right along with him and they could be very happy. then where would baby joey be when lookers leaves his butt. i just hate all this bad news.

  9. News estimates saying 18 months jail time for Tree. She will not walk away without doing time. Juicy will more than likely be deported. who is going to raise these 4 kids who have grown extremely accustomed to a manner of living their parents did not earn nor deserve?

    • Do you have a reference, Charms? Haters are spreading so many lies, I’d like to make sure we at least keep to the facts!

      • My guess is that Charms refers to an HLN segment earlier to day, where an atty (Janet Johnson) said, “I think she gets about 18 months” in response to a question about whether TG would get “30 years.” Thanks, RealMG, for your posts here clarifying many issues…

    • They are in serious trouble, believe me. Everyone has to remember that this 39 count each one has teeth. It’s all based on their own fraud and not hearsay. Then they have Joe who is not a citizen who also was doing fraud (he’s very lucky he’s not in an INS detention center, but if he comes up dirty at any point he could be). They are going hard on them because of two things, one they are in the public eye. And two, they are the first in this group of “thick as thieves” who got charges they can’t obfuscate away or talk out of it.

      Just like the IRS went and talked to the other cast members about the Giudices they talked to others. They know that the Lauritas, the Manzo’s and the Gorga’s along with Wakilie and others are dirty. They are going to use these indictments (remember each one has a maximum of 20 or 30 years a piece, normally they don’t give people the maximum) to get them to talk about the rest and information about their business. Some may say they won’t talk but your totally wrong. You see they can go to Teresa and say look we can give you many years for your crimes that you did and you will be away from your babies. But if you start cooperating with us about things we could see to drop some years and even just give you a few months in jail/prison depending on what you have. The same with Joe, he may talk tough but many who have the federal govt. on their ass and are looking at being deported especially away from their family will bitch up and start squealing like a pig.

      The reason why it’s going so slowly with the Lauritas is because they haven’t been charged with anything yet but once they are there won’t be delays and such and you will be on the Fed schedual.

      • i think tre would talk, if she knew anything, not against her brother though.
        if it came to her girls, or others, she will chose the girls. joe, i do not know; he has
        that mentality, you do not squeal. that mentality will really help him in prison.
        going away.

    • Again, why drag the children into this? The loss of whatever lifestyle the parents have provided is likely the LEAST of the children’s concern at this moment. May God bless those girls. Making veiled comments about the children being pampered/spoiled and commenting directly (on another thread) about how the Giudice girls “expect/demand the loot from their ill-gotten gains.” is wrong. It is wrong on so many levels. LEAVE THE KIDS OUT OF THIS!

      • The comments regarding their kids should be left out of this, however, these children are their children and when you have parents that do heinous, illegal things, they get taken away. It’s that simple. You’d think that once they decided to have children, they’d live on the up-and-up. It’s THEIR own problem.

        As far as where the children would go, should they both wind up in prison, it’s not up to them; it’s up to the State. Each person who is willing to step up and be their temporary Guardian, has to pass thru the State’s approval. I know this firsthand (with NJ). Anyone in either family could step up and throw their hat in the ring (if they’re truly clean). I hope that they find appropriate guardians for the children.

    • She will have to be proven guilty of something before there is any real discussion of punishment. Not a Teresa fan, but she IS a citizen of this country and that IS what the Constitution says.

  10. Maybe they would all be happier in Italy; have never known any immigrants who love their former country more than these do… they talk about being Italian constantly and seem very proud of their heritage, so perhaps if Joe is deported and the family goes with him, they will fit right in. I’m Pollyanna, have we met?

    • Well, maybe after they serve time here, Joe will get deported and they could start anew in Italy. I’d hope that they would have learned their lesson and live on the straight and narrow after this ordeal!!!!!!

  11. This is all just too sad to contemplate. Must say when Juicy first appeared on Bravo he seemed very shady and Tre seemed just a spendthrift mom. Can she plead as an innocent spouse? Juicy is so deeply dishonest and seems to come from very rough parents. Of course, this whole NJ mafia connected Bravo group is unfortunately playing out the first impression I had from the HW first season.

    • No I dont think the I AM JUST SIGNED WHAT HE TOLD me will Fly with the Feds. Teresa did her own misdeeds like forging W2s to get a loan. If she (or anyone) signs something without knowing what it is then you are a fool. Ignorence is not a excuse to get away with fraud or any crime.

      • Respectfully, Lisa, you don’t know that “Teresa did her own misdeeds like forging W2s to get a loan.”

        Who’s to say she ever even saw those W2s?

        Who’s to say she even saw, much less signed, that loan application?

        Remember, these materials were apparently transferred THROUGH THE MAIL.

        You might also want to remember that Juicy has already been found to have forged his partner’s name on a mortgage instrument and to have falsified documents in connection with it. Who’s to say he didn’t do the same thing to Tre?

        In order to convict someone of a crime the government has to prove, among other things, criminal intent. Insanity, intoxication, age, intelligence, mental illness are all recognized legal defenses as are mistake of fact, ignorance of the law and even duress.

        I hate to rain on the Happy Haters Parade but there’s definitely a lot of jumping the gun here.

        • RealMafia: If they were indicted, they have plenty of evidence. Time will tell……… It is sad, and it’s unbelievable that she’d agree to do these illegal acts, but it’s entirely possible.

          • New York State Chief Judge Sol Wachtler was famously quoted by Tom Wolfe in The Bonfire of the Vanities that “A grand jury would ‘indict a ham sandwich,’ if that’s what you wanted.”

            An indictment is a formal accusation that a person has committed a criminal offense. The Grand Jury’s job, therefore, is to determine if there is enough credible evidence to ACCUSE an individual or not. The Grand Jury does not try a case; that is the job of the Court.

            Differences between the work of a Grand Jury and the Court include the fact that the public prosecutor is not obligated to present exculpatory evidence, and witnesses have no right to do so. The accused cannot confront or cross‐examine his accusers. Hearsay evidence may be taken into account and the exclusionary rule does not apply.

            I agree with you that the Feds do not like to lose and they therefore make their cases very carefully. I think they included Tre in their ACCUSATIONS in order to get Juicy to plea bargain, but I do not think they have enough to convict Tre. JMHO

            • Good lord, thank you for saying this. Not everyone accused by the US Government is guilty. God bless

            • I didn’t know bonfire of the Vanities was the source of the ham sandwich quote. And may I add it is refreshing to read a well reasoned, thoughtful, grammatically correct post.

        • Totally agree with you…. great points… they are innocent until proven guilty.. and we don’t know all the facts… so we will have to see justice unfold

      • You are right Lisa and I agree with you on the I JUST SIGNED WHAT HE TOLD ME what to sign is’nt going to gel with the Feds either. Tree is known to ask questions esp. with her hubby and IF and I say If she didnt know, It is still on her. As you say Lisa, Ignorence is not an excuse to commit a crime. She ( Tree plays stoopid) which she is but when it comes to money, she is not.

  12. Sloppy people, sloppy crime emerging from an attitude that they can get away with most anything because they are slick and other people are dumb. Why would prosecutors pick them? Because they’re easy marks — not the sharpest knives in the drawer!!

  13. remember y’all innocent until proven guilty. Why would the IRS wait 12 years to go after TG for fake w-2′s etc? This isn’t a RICO case after all. Alot of this smacks of strange- limitations kick in after 7 years so unless everyone in the 2009 bankruptcy case was completely brain dead, this is a crazy situation.
    Personally, nearly every single one of the people on these shows seem really questionable. When they trolled for folks that were actually rich in Atlanta for RHOA and Big Rich Atlanta not one of the families that I know that have money (and honey there is A LOT down here) would even entertain the idea. All the “housewives” on RHOA live in Duluth or Roswell (not Buckhead) and the one that does live in Buckhead rents. Real money don’t do reality shows. Plain and simple.

    • Lisa Vanderpump and Yolanda Foster have real money but they don’t seem to take themselves seriously, unlike these pseudo “stars” on the other hw shows.

    • Funny this Innocent till proven Guilty seems to only work if a Guidice is in trouble, People here have already decided the Lauritas are guilty why dosnt Innocent till proven guilty apply to them..

      • Funny till proven guilty is being given to a Guidice when faced with 39 counts but still people here want to get off of Tree & Stumpy and move quickly/change the subject on to Mel, joe, Kathy, Jac, Chris, Rich, …anybody but the accused.

        • CaCA does roll down, you can bet when the feds are done with The Guidice they will go after those closest,
          I wonder if Pete Guidice is crooked

      • Funny till proven guilty is being given to a Guidice when faced with 39 counts but still people here want to get off of Tree & Stumpy and move quickly/change the subject on to Mel, joe, Kathy, Jac, Chris, Rich, …anybody but the accused.

      • It does… but what we are saying is they ALL SEEM SHADY… and even in their shadiness.. I maintain that joe and Teresa were my favorite cast members.. I tuned in to watch her actually.. no one else. The point we are bringing up is that the Lauritas have some serious allegations as well… they all act so innocent.. yet their all seem to have lots of skeletons… so karma is a Bitch.. they should all watch out.. . their hate fest got LOTS OF ATTENTION.. and not just into Tre’s and Joe’s life.. they should all be nervous..

    • The charges came now likely because of their bankruptcy and fraud there and all the amendments they made – opened them up to a lot of scrutiny. It’s not like the IRS/DOJ checks every form people fill out and knew in 2001 that they submitted fake W2s. All their recent trouble caused them to review lots of their documents, and that’s where this comes from.

      As for the 7 years, I believe that is the statute of limitations for an IRS audit on your filed taxes. That would have no impact on fraud in loans/mortgages. Or Joe not filing his taxes – you can’t just not file anything and then hope the IRS doesn’t catch you within 7 years, then get off scotfree. Doesn’t work like that.

      • Actually, the statute of limitations kicks in when the tax return is filed. If you don’t file a return, the meter on the statute of limitations can’t start. In other words, there is NO statute of limitations on unfiled tax returns.

        • Perfect – exactly what I was thinking. People are saying that they can’t go after them because its been more than 7 years. The Feds aren’t in the business of filing charges which will immediately get thrown out.

          • Just FYI, I think the first bank/mail fraud charge — the 2001 loan application — is outside the 10-year statute of limitations.

            But the statute of limitations is a defense and the defendants have not yet had the opportunity to offer any defenses.

          • really – so every single government case results in a guilty verdict…..not immediately, but just today an Army soldier was acquitted of leaking US secrets to WIKIleaks…..guess that was airtight too

      • The IRS never saw the fake W2s katehaven. They were submitted to the bank as evidence of the income said to be earned.

    • They did not wait 12 years to get him … He is charged with failing to file income taxes for years 2004 to 2008 … And they BOTH Knowingly defrauded the banks … which after this is all over us tax payers had to cover … You remember that little bail out a few years ago … That had we not bailed the Banks out we all would have been in worst trouble economically … Well Teresa and Joe were a part of the problem … Believe me they are busting people left and right for Mortgage … Mail … Wire … and bank fraud which are the more serious charges … Maybe you don’t care but I am very upset at a couple who 1 is not even a citizen coming here and getting loans when others have been denied … And making money and not paying taxes for 4 years !!!!!!! I personally know 3 people who went to prison last year for the same charges .. 1 of which only had 1 count of bank fraud for a few hundred thousand .. The US Gov is in fact cracking down BIG TIME on the fraud … this kind of stuff which was allowed to happen ruined our economy … The crimes that they committed most of them fall in the statue of limitations … If they threw Wesley Snipes butt in Jail .. then trust me these two are going

      • Oh Christ I am so sick of the “burden of the taxpayer” argument! The bailout didn’t help anyone except the bankers, who lined their greasy, criminal pockets with the taxpayers money. Doesn’t anyone follow real news sources anymore?!

      • My dear – 1st off – google stars and IRS liens – there are hundreds if not thousands.
        2nd – a resident alien has to pay taxes. Juicy must be either a resident alien or on an extended visa. If you are so pissed about – non-citizens not paying taxes there are upwards of 20 million actual “illegals” that have never gotten a visa, resident alien or student visa….that have never ever paid taxes. That is not what “ruined our economy” – people buying houses and people lending to unqualified borrowers is what killed the housing market- google subprime loans — IF they did what they are alleged to do then yes, they are part of the problem. Hope noone judges you before you are found guilty.

    • Im from atlanta and that is soo true!!! you never see an atlanta reality star from buckhead which is where the real money is in atlanta!!!! they all live really outside the perimeter!! not even sandy springs where sheree used to live!!! duluth is like a 3o minute drive (hour with traffic) and the houses are big, but not that expensive for the size, maybe mid 6 figures. I live in vinings which is on the border of paces,which is where real money lives in this town, tyler perry lives down the road near westminister.
      I’ve seen phadera in my neighbor hood by the cochise club. I think she lives in vinings, but I don’t know where

      • Ms Parks doesn’t live in vinings – she lives in Smynings. We are in vinings too – their kids don’t go to Westminster or Lovett or Pace, so you know they aren’t connected.
        To all y’all calling out that it is just because it is Joe + Tre, you are wrong – I am not apologist for anyone who cheats you or me (the fellow taxpayers). I won’t go into the really silly comments on “the government doesn’t file charges unless they have something.” Really? Ok y’all – so by that thought, every single federal charge leveled against everyone always results in a guilty verdict….right? No…the Government, just like the State, has a HUGE burden of proof. I am just trying to express a counter point, because y’all are already moving the kids in with the awful sister in law etc. 12 year old charges are 12 year old charges and contrary, again, to popular belief the IRS DOES actually scan nearly every single document. The NSA is listening to your phone calls and reading your emails as well, y’all. Going on TV and ADVERTISING your stupidity certainly doesn’t help, but really – stop drinking the koolaid….
        Oh and Lisa and Yolanda – point taken. If their husbands divorce them…..maybe not so much….
        Take care y’all

  14. A long time Caroline bragged that they were “thick as thieves.” Well, she sure was right about the “thieves” part–every last one of those nitwits on the show is crooked!

  15. @RealMafiaGrandmother: I want to thank you for setting the record straight on this posting. I appreciate how you have conveyed information on the judicial system. It has cleared up many questions I had–and others, as well. Thank you….

  16. Nobody say a word! They are investigating each and every one of us. lol I hear helicopters!

  17. Again, I feel sorry for the children. What the hell were they thinking about when they allegedly did all the stuff. Joe you should be ashamed. You came to my Country, and you aren’t a CITIZEN. This upsets me. Teresa is going to lose money because she can’t leave NJ or NY. No book signings. Only time will tell.

    • Barb: As a parent, I cannot fathom how these 2 continued to pull fraudulent acts AFTER they had children!!! Shouldn’t their children be their main concern??????? I guess this is how it works with shady people. Again, this is an embarrassment to NJ, just having them on the NJ show and all. It stinks!

      • It’s not an embarrassment to NJ. Look at our former Governor Corzine. Look at Martha Stewart. Two among the many. When they want to get ya, they will.We NJ folk go with the flow. They will have to answer to their higher power, I won’t. I do not condemn. I do not know these people personally, I’ve never broken bread with any of them. Who am I to judge. I will wait until the end and then pass my own personal judgement. I can do that.
        Personally yes, my heart breaks for the children. Again I do not know them and can’t pass judgement on that part either.
        I will say a prayer that nothing bad comes out of this.

        • barb ty,i feel the same way. but we do know from fame, that wacko, caroline, meissa and fat kim g along with that lady lawyer monica chacon have been setting this up for four yrs.i hope they are shaking in there boots now that we know,who they are,now if teresa leaves the show, housewives is done and they will have to find real jobs. who would hire them anyway.hope that wacko and chris make headlines too soon,and all tv stations

          • lucille: No one “set up” the Joodices… in particular, atty Monica Chacon! The Joodice’s roped themselves into their Federal indictment by their own actions. The RHONJ and Monica (who was NOT the lead atty) simply answered the Feds questions over a period of time… none of them were “partners” with the Feds in “bringing down” the Joodices.

            All the RHONJ were contacted by the Feds and answered their questions two years ago: http://stoopidhousewives.com/2013/07/30/from-the-sh-archives-rhonj-cast-questioned-by-irs-in-2011/ TFC!!! SH

            • monica admitted she’s been involved in on this for four yrs, with the help of kim g amd wacko jacko. now they will be the most hated people here,and i hope all there friends run when they call, for fear of what they will do to them next, also now we know why lawyers can\t be trusted

              • Lucille, Monica & Kim G are looking for attention, IMO. None of the NJ morons have the clout or the smarts to make the Feds prosecute the Guidices.

          • More and more records are being digitized making it much easier to red flag past indiscretions. I don’t think that anyone was after the Gudice’s. The Bankruptcy was a big mistake. Not filing their income tax was a big mistake. No matter how you like Teresa and Joe, this is on them not their co workers.

              • They aren’t a reliable source for information. They don’t vet their info or back it up with documentation like SH. You have to take everything with a grain of salt that you read there.

            • Just based on my experience, I think it was the large cash expenditures of Season 1 that caught the IRS’s eye. At the time it was aired I thought to myself, “Oh, wow, the IRS is definitely going to be looking at them!” And after what I’m sure was a lot of analysis what they found, of course, was that Juicy hadn’t filed tax returns and was required to.

              With respect to the bankruptcy fraud charges, I think it’s pretty widely recognized that people really don’t know and can’t really decipher either their tax returns or bankruptcy forms. As a result, bankruptcy attorneys are required to exercise due diligence to ensure that all the financial information submitted on bankruptcy schedules is accurate. (People may not realize that bankruptcy petitions are probably a quarter of an inch thick or more and they contain very little text but are more like tax returns in that they are primarily full of numbers and tables and fine print.) As someone on another blog said, Tre had a lawyer. How could she — of all people — be expected to know that everything that needed to be reported in this myriad of forms had been included and was included properly? I’ll bet you anything the lawyer got the information from Joe, dealt primarily with Joe, and that Tre pretty much just signed where the lawyer told her to.

              Joe Mastropole — who had filed a civil suit against Juicy in 2007 in which Juicy was found to have forged Mastropole’s signature as well as that of a notary public — was a creditor in the Giudice’s bankruptcy and Monica Chacon has said that their firm, which represented Mastropole, was active in bringing to the bankruptcy court’s attention the fact that Juicy had engaged in fraud in connection with the Mastropole debt. (The court doesn’t really scrutinize the underlying nature of the debtor’s debts, just the fact that they are legitimately owed.) Given the absence of anything more, I think it was that, combined with the communications of Chacon’s firm with federal investigators, that resulted in the government’s position that the omissions from the bankruptcy filings were deliberate as opposed to inadvertent.

              None of this, however, explains how federal investigators came to look at the Giudice’s original bank loan applications. The forgery on the Mastropole documents could, I suppose, cause one to wonder about the veracity of other loan documents but Mastropole was a private party and Joe’s partner as opposed to an commercial bank, so it doesn’t really seem to me that an investigator’s thought process would necessarily go that way. More likely it was the IRS that tripped on it when they were trying to reconstruct Joe’s income for the missing years. Because of the cash transactions highlighted on the RHONJ, the IRS would have closely scrutinized any loans since loans are sources of cash, albeit nontaxable. It seems to me, though, that they could have easily confirmed the timing, amount and existence of the loans without looking at the original loan applications. While it’s definitely possible that the IRS agents doing the work — who truly are top notch — went this extra step entirely on their own, it also seems possible to me that federal investigators may have had a little guidance on this in the form of a tip. No idea from who and not speculating!

              JMHO!

              • What I was implying is that older records such as loans are now in the system that weren’t in the past. As such the information is readily available . It may have been as simple as someone entering the name and all the info was theirs for the taking.

          • Lucille, I do not know that….I accuse no one. What will be will be and they got caught. I will always be a Teresa fan, through thick or thin. Didn’t someone say that BRAVO gave T the money. I guess time will tell.

  18. Lisa and everyone else? There were fake W2′s ? We had our own bungee jumping business and my husband was a chiropractor. I handled the books and then my husband would add his deductions. We were always in a huge battle as I would not permit many of his deductions and then we submitted his income and deductions to our accountant. I was so worried, I started submitting my own information independently to our accountant and when I moved out I filed injured spouse to the IRS. I had no idea what information he was submitting about his income, and I was pretty sure he was under reporting it, and overstating expenses, but there was nothing I could do, because he wouldn’t let me really delve into things. We were married and he was keeping all the money while I was living penny to penny.

    I do not think they forged a W2, unless it was reported. Merely over stating your income when a form asks what you make is not forging a W2. I would guess my ex husband did it all the time, but I was not permitted to know what he was filing and he applied for many loans by himself and some in my name. He was a total piece of work.

    So in the end, I reported to the IRS injured spouse because I didn’t have any control. when I was still living with him, I could have turned him into the IRS, but I had no proof of what he was doing- so we really have no idea what Theresa did and did not know. I think Joe was doing business Italian style and didn’t realize we have strict rules abou tthis stuff, and Tre I think was pretty clueless about what she was getting herself into.
    Also, I think it is racist if the IRS are going after Tre and Joe and not everyone where I live. In Napa where I am from, they built huge houses in American Canyone that were about $350,000 to $400,000 a piece. Our landscape guy was able to purchase one of those homes. I asked him how he could afford or get the loan, and said he just lied and told the bank he made $100,000 a year. They didn’t ask for any verification, and he said he didn’t have to offer any. This was about 10 years ago before the mortgage bust….Probably about 1/3 of the people that bought there were hispanic and lied about their income….so let’s go after all of those people for fraud. The banks let them, and I honestly think they didn’t realize there was much wrong with lying abou tthis, because people wanted the sale and the loan.

    • The fake W2′s are from a company that she FRADULENTLY claimed she worked for (allegedly at this point). She did this so that she could obtain mortgages for Joe to be able to begin his house-flipping business. Nothing was on the up-and-up. That was a lie. Not reporting his income for a few years was another blatent lie. Declaring bankruptcy and then lying about your income (and future income) was another lie. These people are in deep.

    • That is what baffles me. False W2s and pay stubs. What kind of a mortgage company wouldn’t verify such things? It all seems a little more than crazy to me. There is definitely a lot of plotting and scheming here. The one thing I have to say is that regardless of whether Teresa falsified those w2′s or just signed them, she is implicated. I am starting to think she will see jail time. I am going to reread the indictment when I get home, I only got part way through last night. All of these things are so easily traced, though. Why did it take the Feds so long?

  19. How does Joe have passport to surrender if he is not a US citizen? Is it issued by Italy?

  20. Guilty, Guilty, Guilty!! I see my letter writing campaign after their bankruptcy to the IRS has paid off. Joe has always been crooked. He has been PROVEN in a court of law to have provided fraudulent, forged documents. He has a case pending for providing fraudulent and forged documents to the State of NJ. He is now indicted on guess what- fraudulent and forged documents submitted to the Bankruptcy court as well as Bank fraud, See a pattern? Regardless of whatever shite drops from Tre’s mouth crying she didn’t know any of this Joe took care of the money is all inconsequential. In a court of law, they don’t deal with excuses. And Theresa’s the Queen of Excuses. In fact, the court really loves a defendant who comes clean, falls on their sword and begs for forgiveness. Tre is not capable of even taking responsibility for what she said 5 minutes ago so let’s see how the court slaps her harder for being prideful. In Tre’s own words “See, My Husband told the truth and got in trouble- Ya Gotta Lie, it’s Sad”.

  21. i have never seen such a “rush to judgement” as I have here. God forbid any one of you ever get accused of anything ever. Shall we all just assume you are guilty without KNOWING your story? Look back on these comments and reflect. Not all guilty people get prosecuted and not all the prosecuted are guilty. This has nothing to do with if you *like* the Giudices or hate them. I don’t know them. But for the grace of God go I. We are a country of Innocent until proven guilty. We may think “oh hell yes they are guilty”, but perception is not reality. OJ got off. Casey Anthony got off. Were they guilty????

    • No rush to judgement. Reread my above post. Federal courts have a 98% conviction rate. If you can concede he has already plead to providing forged documents to the court in his previous case-plus- has 10 years hanging over his head for providing forged fraudulent documents in that case, then this is a pattern of fraudulent behavior. If Juicy is convicted in his upcoming case, he may be attending these trials from a cell.

      • Yes they do. It is very difficult to beat a Fed case. And ninja is right they have a conviction rate of 98 percent. Even trying to appeal a Fed case is usually thrown out. I live in Detroit, and when our dumb ass mayor was convicted ( which made me happy ). I did a lot of reading in the Feds and the Rico law. So I don’t think people are judging to quick, but the numbers don’t lie. So either they start singing to reduce some of their sentence, if convicted on even 10 of the 39, they are going to jail. No ifs, ands, buts about it.

        • 97% of the 98% conviction rate is made up of plea bargains, Charletta.

          Of people who actually go to trial, two-thirds (or 66%) are convicted and one-third (or 33%) are exonerated.

          Still not good odds, of course, but conviction is hardly a foregone conclusion.

    • Lot of experts on the justice system, too. Many appear to believe they have the “inside track” on what the verdict will be and who is going to jail and for how long. Apparently, its nothing but a detail that the accused have not even been arraigned, much less been through a trial! Since I know nothing at all about what evidence there is or is not, I will refrain from comments that attempt to show knowledge I obviously couldn’t possibly possess.
      I’m funny like that…

    • Bravo Cheers y’all… its another hate fest… people have got to stop… we really don’t know anything yet… I pray for justice in EVERYTHING… and again.. we don’t even know what the defense has to say….

  22. Remember when Jac Laurita and caroline Flipped out on Tre on the deck? Jac was hysterical and caroline was so nasty about Teresa’s finances. I remember thinking what the hell are they so angry about its none of their business. I bet they were mad because the IRS questioned them about Teresa and joe. That put them under the IRS radar. It’s all making sense now.

  23. I think they are all involved. If you read the indictment, there is mention of a clothing brand (Lauritas) & a gas station (Wakiles). Either the rest of them are next, or they all cut a deal.

    • I read a good bit of the full indictment and it was my sense that the issue of those other businesses was in regard to the Jewdeechay’s income from them was not declared in the bankruptcy filings, not that they were fraudulent in and of themselves. Though, they may well be.

  24. So they went through the trouble of making false returns to get loans but never filed legit tax returns. Totally bizarro!

  25. Anyone who thinks they will walk away, just ask Martha Stewart, Wesley Snipes, or Richard Hatch, the original Survivor winner who pocketed his million dollar prize thinking it was tax free. I can see Joe and Teresa’s inspired new product….”Felonnini”

  26. Wtf. This is too crazy, are we gonna see half this cast in prison by next year? I guess if Tre and Juicy gotta move to Italy Bravo can always do a RHOI…

    • Honestly, I am sure I will quit watching if there is no Teresa. I find the rest of the cast boring. However, as adults, we do have to have accountability for our actions, and if the courts deem she needs to serve time, so be it. I am sure her mother will care for her children.

  27. Something I found interesting today was Juicy’s attorney saying he didn’t know he wasn’t a US Citizen. At first, I thought what the hell? How could he not know! However, if he came here at the age of 1, and his parents got his social security card at a young age, is it possible? I don’t know for sure and someone who wasn’t born here would have to clarify for me. Since he’s a legal resident, he would have a social security card. I would think that his birth certificate would have given him a clue, but who knows? Like I said at first I was rolling my eyes and saying of course he knew. It may be something that he honestly never gave much, thought, though. I would think being an American is all he has ever known. His parents reaction seemed more than a little crazy.

    Side note, I am fairly certain this case will come down to a plea bargain of some sort. While I believe in innocent until proven guilty, the evidence seems very overwhelming, and the prosecution seems determined to get their conviction. What concerns me is still the well being of the children. Before anyone says anything, I also am concerned about the Laurita children and how their legal issues will affect them. It’s one thing to trash talk the adults while watching the show, it’s a whole other ballgame to wish badly on these kids. I still don’t understand what these adults were thinking, or if they were thinking.

    Side note, Miss Kim G sure is a mean spirited woman. It’s one thing to want to see justice, it’s another to wish badly on others. Maybe I am too soft hearted? I just thought that was evil.

    • my kids are in 50′s my youngest is late 40′s when they were born, we didn’t get ss numbers for them, back then it was unheard of,forgot when it started but think it might be about late 80′;s

  28. First, I am a very long-time reader of SH, with no real side or loyalty to any housewives. I like the mindless drama. I call each situation as I see it. I always think about commenting, but I don’t have time and usually someone else says what I’m thinking anyhow, most often the regular posters. My husband says I’m Team Giudice, and I do tend to sympathize with Teresa, but I’m not a “Tree-hugger.” I just find them amusing. But this is not funny in any way.

    Anyhow, doing some simple reading will clear up most questions. The indictment itself is an easy read.

    The IRS often goes after public figures. That keeps the “little people,” as Leona Helmsley called us, in check. Tax liens and investigations are sometimes settled for lesser amounts, and sometimes people go to prison, whether they pay or cannot pay. The only constant is if the IRS comes for you, you will not get out of it. The penalties are determined on a case-by-case basis, like all crimes are tried.

    Teresa glossed over the bankruptcy case, saying they were paying their debts. It was reported that their discharge was denied because they were hiding assets. Perhaps I misread or paid too much attention to uninformed comments, because I swear I thought Teresa said they withdrew their bankruptcy and decided to pay their debts. I speculated that they must have struck some sort of deal, because if they were not hiding anything, why withdraw the filing? But I did think it was honorable that Teresa was working to pay off their debts.

    Now it is obvious that they did not strike a deal, and they did not withdraw the filing. They were denied the bankruptcy discharge, as listed in the indictment and previously reported. They hoped, or were just pretending in public, that it would go away if they attempted to pay off their debts. The federal government does not work that way. The damage was done, enough alleged perjury to investigate. I assume it works the same way as “innocent until proven guilty.” They can investigate based on this probable cause. They might not even need probable cause! I honestly don’t know the federal court’s limitations. But they began their case on the bankruptcy fraud, and then they kept going, finding as much as they could. The Feds are notorious for making examples out of high-profile people, especially with finances and taxes.

    Because she has been referenced so much, Martha Stewart was not convicted of insider trading or securities fraud. Google it if you must. She was convicted of obstructing justice and lying to investigators. The G’s both allegedly lied under oath several times about several properties/incomes. That leads me to think, if the perjury allegations are founded, T will probably serve some time, but this is pure speculation and I have no idea how much.

    A quick Google search on statute of limitations shows that there are exceptions, one being continuing violations. If a crime is ongoing, or part of the same “scheme,” the statute of limitations doesn’t apply. Gossiping with my dad, he said it was used in the past against organized crime members bc investigations took a long time and they were hard to catch. If you read the Giudice indictment, they are being charged with conspiracy, and it lists their “schemes.” Their last crime within the scheme has to be within the statute of limitations, and then any other crimes in the scheme can be included.

    I’ve not had much experience with buying and selling properties, (I’ve only bought one condo, a few cars over the years) nor with taking out home equity loans, but I would assume one would have to be physically present at some point to be the sole owner of a property or the only person listed on a loan. T is listed on some loans and properties without J. I could be totally wrong about this, but it seems like a stretch that she would never be physically present to sign some documents, even in a shady industry. And the indictment doesn’t say that ALL of the documents were mailed. It just says that mail and other private carriers were used to submit fraudulent documents. That could be mailing any document. Once the transaction is fraudulent, any associated mailings are included as fraudulent. Think of how many documents are signed or sent when you take out a loan or buy a property.

    The Feds don’t mess around. They investigate, wait until they have solid evidence to indict, then they drop the bomb. Even T’s lawyer said something to the extent of, “With a Federal case, there’s always a risk of jail.” Look up “federal conviction rate.” There are a lot of numbers tossed around from many sources, but everyone agrees it is high. 90-98% high. Is every person indicted by the federal government guilty? Of course not. But they pick and choose their cases carefully, investigate thoroughly, and strive to maintain their high conviction rates. Plea bargains count as convictions, and are often taken by defendants because the federal cases are so iron-clad. Why do you think people are so afraid of “The Feds”?

    As for the Lauritas, their company filed in 2010. The Giudices filed in 2009. I assume the Feds are building the Laurita case still. I’m sure it will be all over the media if they drop the the investigation. Until then, they are still under investigation, and are probably sweating it right now. I feel for Jac bc I have a kid with special needs and I know how hard it is. All of my spare time is truly dedicated to helping my son, engaging him in therapeutic techniques, communicating with his therapists, researching, and I have a full-time job as an educator and administrator. This is why I’ve never posted (summer break gives me a little respite). I sneak a few minutes before bed each night to indulge in my guilty pleasure of the RHW, especially on this blog. My husband and I are educated and part of the shrinking middle class, and we have to live within a budget to support our child. If, and I mean IF, she and her husband pilfered that company on private jets and limos and other nonsense, then I hate her. I spend all of my extra money on co-pays and therapies to help my child, flying coach while sweating and wrangling my child as others shoot me disapproving looks or mumble criticisms, just to visit relatives – not taking luxurious vacations.

    Whether or not the mortgage industry was or is still corrupt, that is not an excuse. Yes, many people committed fraudulent acts like these. Each person who is caught and convicted deters others from doing the same. When you get caught, you pay the price. I wish more people would get caught instead of just celebrities. Maybe then I could sell my condo and move into a better school district. I’m only about 15k underwater, but like many people, I don’t have 15k to bring to a closing, plus a down payment on a new house. And I bought a starter home within my means when the market was declining. I can’t imagine what others are going through.

    My guilty RHW pleasure is no longer a pleasure.

    • Your points are valid and your post is loaded with good sense. I do think though, that the bankruptcy was withdrawn. There are a number of news stories regarding that as a fact, so I am thinking that really happened. I have no experience with bankruptcy, Thank God, but perhaps it is possible for a fraud case to be pursued even after it is withdrawn. The mere filing of the bankruptcy case constitutes fraud, maybe?

      • Thanks, sherry!
        As for the bankruptcy, the indictment definitely says each of them were denied a discharge of bankruptcy.
        Is this the same as “withdrawing”?
        To me, “withdrawn” sounds voluntary. “Denied” sounds forced.
        I am just glad that I’m not going crazy, because I definitely read/heard “withdrawn.”
        Perhaps it is T’s positive spin, and she left out that she was forced to withdraw?
        There is so much online and here about it, but I can’t quickly find a clear answer.
        And you’re right, it has been reported as waived, withdrawn, and denied. The media doesn’t have the best track record for fact-checking (Manti Teo, hah).
        But the indictment says denied. I’m going with that as the most reputable document for now.
        I’m sure Ms. SH knows… Can you help?
        Now I’m going to be addicted to commenting. I’ll wind up like Jac, ignoring my kid to be online all day talking about Jac ignoring her kid. Karma gets us all!

  29. I am not in the US so I haven’t seen much of the financial woes of the Teresa and Jo published (except on SH). I’ve got to admit in watching the show it is really easy to get caught up in the petty drama that these ladies all rely on for their income, when something this serious is going on behind the scenes. I will admit that from what is on the show I have been a fan of Teresa over the others, but now I’m just disgusted with all of them (after watching the last reunion and the beginning of this season). I suppose that this situation goes to show that you definitely don’t know who the people on these shows really are (partly because of editing as well as entertainment value).

    What we can conclude is, if Teresa and Jo are found guilty by the court and the judgement is upheld at any appeals, is that what they did was and is wrong! And frankly I hope that any individual, business or corporation who breaks the law like is alleged here are also held accountable, because no one will benefit in the end.

  30. Just read Famewhorgas and I think Jac and Caro were definetly rats trying to get Tre to admit things about her mag deals, etc, on the deck scene….and Creepy Chris making sure Jaco got the goods from Tre….Jaco prob wearing a wire. There is documented remarks, etc., how Jaco gabs every day with Kim Granatell to the lawyer -just go read. This makes so much sense – Melissa, all of them. Rats. Andy Cohen has been extremely cheerful since the news broke, but he and the rest knew this was coming. Maybe that is why he is up Caroline’s butt so much-this is all just so disgusting. Every darn one of these people are dirty-ALL OF THEM.

  31. How come marrying Teresa didn’t make Joe a US Citizen? And why didn’t he go and become one after living here all these years. – I still remember Teresa buying all that furniture and whipping out cash, prolly wasn’t a good idea on camera if you aren’t paying taxes – maybe Joe can share a cell with Wesley Snipes lol

  32. Why have so many of you who defend the Giudices not read the indictment? You can either continue to fein ignorance or simply type Giudice fraud indictment into Google and read the facts. And the facts aren’t pretty. If you don’t understand the charges you can also Google the terms and learn what they are. The bankruptcy is what sparked the investigation. Once the bankruptcy courts found out they had lied the rest was investigated. They filed almost 5 million in mortgages and claimed little ( for their lifestyle) income. JMS had it mostly right, other that his/her lack of knowledge on the mortgage crisis and banking collapse. While there were some large lending institutions (Countrywide and their liberal partners in crime… Chris Dodd, Chuck Schumer, etc) and mostly smaller privately owned companies who themselves knowingly committed fraud to make millions, most banks were forced to do the risky ” no income” loans and loans to what were once determined to be riskier buyers by threat of lawsuits by liberal organizations who pushed home ownership as a human right and not what it is, a privilege. Google the Community Reinvestment Act started by Jimmy Carter and expanded further by Bill Clinton if you want to understand the truth behind the housing collapse. Or you can all Google the involvement of a former community organizer from Chicago and then Senator from illinois and now President and his involvements in those threatening lawsuits. Stated income loans were used by millions of qualified and honest people with no fraud for years. The Giudices didn’t even do this type of loan or they wouldn’t have had to prove their income with paystubs and W-2′s. And the courts have deemed that the documents they did produce were fraudulent. And when you produce a tax return for proof of income that you never filed with the IRS, that’s fraud. And you think all fraud should be caught by banks? How? Some fraudulent documents are easily spotted, others not so much. It depends on how good the person doctoring the documents is. With Joe Giudice’s past fraud charges, he apparently was, or someone he knew, was good at it. The Guidice’s are a perfect example of the collapse of the housing industry. 3 houses, 1 with 3 mortgages, 1 with 4, and their 1.7 million dollar mansion. Then throw in the equity loans on the businesses and you see how they supported themselves….until they couldn’t. Then they apparently lied some more in the bankruptcy and the rest will be determined in a court of law. Most people who get mortgage loans don’t provide fraudulent documents. Most banks and mortgage companies don’t purposefully make fraudulent loans. One couple from New Jersey, almost 5 million in fraudulent loans….if proven guilty, and I doubt these 39 indictments are frivolous, they should be on a poster as an example of the face of the housing and banking collapse. And think of people like them when you try to sell you house and realize you can’t because you now owe more on it than it’s worth. Think of them when you legitimately apply for a loan and feel like you’re being treated with suspicion or when you are denied. Now, open your eyes or continue to look like fools for defending them.

    • I think posters who defend the Giudices have read the indictment, whippet, but they also understand that the indictment is a list of unproven allegations, nothing more, nothing less. Wesley Snipes comes to mind as a quick example of someone was completely acquitted of all of the criminal allegations in the federal indictment against him except for the failure to file income tax returns, which the jury knocked down to a misdemeanor.

      So, yeah, I think posters defending the Giudices are people who have read both the indictment and the U.S. Constitution, which in the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendments create the presumption of innocence until someone is PROVEN guilty.

      • Right RMG! Not justifying or anything, but constitutionally speaking, there is a case to be made that filing a tax return is un-constitutional! One of my close friends is a tax attorney, and she gets people off all the time b/c of that. Not saying it’s right, but at the federal level it’s a fact. Not sure about state level, though.

      • Funny how that pretty speech seems to only apply to the Guidices and no one else.

      • I know you are passionate about the presumption of innocence and I admire that, but we are allowed to talk about what we think about the case and weither we feel they are guilty.

        • Of course we are Lisa. And I’d agree that the Giudices are guilty of somethings, but we can’t go saying they are necessarily guilty of 39 counts until we see the trial/evidence. I think I would say the same about Tre as I would Jaq or anyone else, there’s always fire where you see smoke, but let’s wait and see how big the fire is. There is a ton of flim flam con man bs on this hw show especially, it’s like watching a car accident you can’t look away from. Lol. Tre n Juicy are not model citizens, but let’s discuss what may happen instead of calling other posters fools if we don’t agree…

          • Being fools has nothing to do with disagreeing on what may happen with these charges, it has to do with those that choose to ignore the severity of these charges or understand what they are. This isn’t some partner suing Juicy Joe for forging his signature, this isn’t even about the State of NJ case with Joe. This is the FEDS. Not only have you admitted the Giudice’s are not model citizen’s while throwing in Jaq’s name as deflection, but you continue to defend someone whose behavior on the show alone is indefensible. The Giudice’s have given a roadmap of their deeds on this show and many can’t see it….but I’m sure the Feds did. And if the Feds came knocking on your door during an investigation, most would answer their questions honestly. But to the Tre and Joe lovers, if Carolyn, Jaq, Melissa or anyone else on the show “talked” it must be all their fault. It was probably their fault that Joe called Teresa a c*nt on national television too. Joe and Teresa aren’t victims here, nor are their fans. But their I’ll-behaved children certainly are for more reasons than being pimped out by their parents for wealth and fame. Regardless of the result of these indictments, those children will be affected for the rest of their lives because of their own and their parents behavior on this show. Shame on the Giudices for putting wealth and fame ahead of those 4 innocent girls.

            • So…. if someone disagrees with you, they are a fool? You are saying anyone not seeing this as “severe” as you do is wrong….and a fool….There’s just no need to make blanket statements saying that others are fools here. No one needs to use Jaq as deflection, it’s just painfully obvious this entire cast, (other than Rosie), has illegal doings, Jaq’s and Tre’s are hitting the fan now. If you say a duck is a duck when it’s a Giudice, then all these crooked ducks are, well, ducks. It’s not “defending” to say, hey let’s wait and see what sticks. How many times do people get charged with many things but some charges get dropped? All day every day.

              • And again the deflection from the Giudice supporters. I thought this was a discussion about the charges against the Giudices not allegations against other housewives. And yes, people get charged with many things every day…but not Federal indictments. The current ducks in trouble are the Giudices. The fools aren’t those who disagree with me on the outcome, it’s those who are so charmed by the Giudices that they lack all common sense or knowlege of how serious these charges are.

              • Sigh… You are SO excited to talk about how severe this is and label people “fools” and “Giudice supporters” that you are not able to discuss or consider common sense. This is a tv show, we are allowed to talk about each hw in comparison to their co-stars. Pretty much this entire cast is shady in one way or another. It is what it is. Rant about Tre today, everyone will rant about Jaq or Mego tomorrow..

              • Calling people “fools” isn’t necessary to make a point in a discussion. We can have discussions about the charges without resorting to name calling. Also, children are off limits on SH so commenting on the “ill-behaved children” is also unnecessary to make a point.

              • Agreed Chem. Idk why some have to get on the name calling and insulting train ..it derails the real conversation and wastes time.

              • The thing kelli is i use to get jumped on and harrassed when i brought Teresa name into conversations that were not about her, now the tables are turned nd now is perfectly ok to bring the others into a conversation about teresa funny how is wrong when i did it and now its honky dory…

              • Ya but the thing is, I am saying ALL these people are crooked, Jaq being the one involved in a suit now. But I think some stuff may come down the pipeline for others too, I think Mego is gonna have a messy foreclosure/bankruptcy, and I think Kathy is livin beyond her means too. Caroline with her apartment is odd too.. I don’t hate one of these broads any more than the next, I am sayin they all are scummy posers. Then someone says, hey don’t “deflect” off of Teresa!!! I am not deflecting, anyone watchin this show can agree that these people are all financial morons.

              • i know what you are saying and trust me i agree but thats the way it was with me to, we would be talking about something someone did and ii would remind people teresa did the samething and i would get a bunch of rude post telling me that the subject wasnt teresa and bringing her name into it is deflecting..

              • I don’t think you were deflecting, you were projecting and proffessing that you disliked Tre. At least that’s how I’m recollecting. Lol.

      • Ok, you all just keep on telling yourselves that! Juicy Joe and Tre count on people like you to keep them on the show!

  33. RealMafiaGrandmother,
    Wesley Snipes was just realeased from prison after being sentenced to 3 years for a tax scheme to collect huge refunds by filing amended returns and not filing returns for 3 years. I didn’t know a misdemeanor sent you to the slammer for 3 years! He had 8 indictments, the Giudices each have 39. You do the math. And of course they are innocent until proven guilty as a court of law will determine, but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck and has previously been found guilty as a duck and has other current court cases coming as a duck, then likely, it’s a duck.

    • There are federal sentencing guidelines that, in combination with any previous convictions, govern the amount of time someone convicted of a tax crime will do. As I recall, Mr. Snipes had earned something like $38 million in the time period for which he did not file returns although I do not think all of that was ultimately considered taxable income.

      I actually have “done the math” with respect to the Giudices but, even if they were convicted on all counts — and for Tre there are only 34 counts, if I remember correctly, since she has not been charged with failing to file a tax return — but there are a lot of intangibles that make it difficult to calculate with any real accuracy. This is partially because judges doing the sentencing with respect to the bankruptcy fraud charges will have some discretion and then there are other issues like whether sentences for the various crimes will run concurrently (i.e., they start at the same time) or consecutively (i.e., the sentences run one after another, with a sentence beginning only after the previous sentence ends). The general rule is that they will run concurrently but a judge can order something else.

      Based on some assumptions my GUESSTIMATE is that a more realistic number of the years Joe could do is about 9.5 years, including good time.

      And I honestly cannot see any time for Tre; I just can’t see it. I have not seen all the evidence, of course, but I have some serious questions about whether the feds can prove a case against Tre. Once you factor in her defenses and the fact that, just as there are differences of opinion on this board, the jury would likely be very split as well, the chance of a unanimous jury verdict against Tre seem — to me — to be slim to none. I’m just not seeing it.

      With respect to Joe, however, even 9.5 years is still a TON of time and, if it were me, I would seriously consider any plea bargain for less time that included a non-prosecution agreement with respect to Tre. That’s just me, though. It was reported that Joe refused any plea bargain in his driver’s license case that included doing any amount of time at all and I always thought that, if true, it was pretty ambitious. I do not, however, have any feel AT ALL of what a NJ jury would do with Joe so, while I’m not really “feeling” a successful outcome for him — and it should be mentioned that he hasn’t even had an opportunity to put forward a defense, so I have no idea how successful it might be — I’m sure his lawyer will provide him with a FAR more accurate view of the merits of his defense as well as the any plea bargain that might be offered than anyone else.

      JMHO!!!!

      • Everyone is focused on Joe’s failure to pay his taxes when that particular charge is the least of his worries. Certainly the easiest to prove, but the least penalty of any of the other charges. The bankruptcy fraud was already discovered which was why it was denied by the courts. The most serious charges are those of fraud pertaining to the acquisition of the almost 5 million in mortgage debt, which doesn’t include the $260,000+ judgment in the case already won against Joe by his business partner. And it’s difficult to imagine his defense to fraudulent tax returns, w-2′s and paystubs provided to secure those loans. If there is a tax return in any of those loan files for a year that the Giudice’s didn’t file with the IRS there is no defense. And Teresa can’t claim innocence because each loan application listing her fake employment and income would have been signed by her at closing. if Joe falsified the paperwork then Teresa would have noticed at the closing. By signing she verified the information as accurate. The only defense she could have is that someone posing as her signed the documents and she wasn’t aware of the loans at all which doesn’t seem plausible as 3-4 mortgages were on her Jersey Shore home. An attorney in another article said she already admitted during bankruptcy proceedings or the patner’s case that she signed loan documents. The only scenario where Teresa gets off on the fraud issues is if she can prove her signature was forged on every mortgage she has in her name.
        I suspect there were so many indictments and charges at once to show a pattern of deception by the couple in numerous legal proceedings.

        • I agree with you that the failure to file tax returns is the easiest to prove but even that’s not a slam dunk as the feds will have to prove that Joe had income sufficient to require him to file a tax return. Loan proceeds are not taxable income so, if they were living off the proceeds of the loans, it’s possible he didn’t have enough income to require him to file. While I think that the feds will likely be able to make their case on that point, it’s possible for that to be reduced from a felony to a misdemeanor, which is what the failure to file is normally considered to be and which was the result in Snipes. That will reduce the amount of time associated with the crime. The amount of time one does for a tax crime also varies depending on the amount of unreported income so, if the feds have overstated the amount of income and Joe can knock it down, he would also do less time.

          Bankruptcy fraud was not “proven” in the bankruptcy case. I’m not going to go through the laundry list of elements the feds will have to persuade a jury to unanimously agree upon beyond a reasonable doubt but it’s my opinion that, with respect to Tre, that’ll never happen; I just don’t think that, with respect to her, they can prove all the elements. (Remember, the prosecutors have the burden of proof here. Snipes is a good example of that in that he was completely vindicated of all charges other than the failure to file tax returns without putting on a single witness; the feds simply could not make their case. Also keep in mind that 97% of that vaunted 98% conviction rate results from plea bargains; one-third of the people who go to trial get off.) The statutory punishment for bankruptcy fraud, by the way, is a maximum of five years imprisonment. Even if Joe’s sentenced to the maximum, the five year sentence(s) can run concurrently and be less than the time Joe would do with respect to the tax return charges.

          With respect to the alleged bank fraud, the oldest charge looks to be outside the 10-year statute of limitations. Loan applications, by the way, aren’t signed at closing and, in this case, they were sent by mail. Don’t know where you got your info that Tre admitted signing the loan documents; can you provide a link or Google search terms? Tre, by the way, doesn’t have to prove her signature was forged on every mortgage she has in her name; the indictment only includes five mortgage transactions, including the one I think is out of statute, and I don’t think Tre was a party in at least one of the others. .

          Again, JMHO, but this is much more complicated than many people think.

          Also, if you’re worried about Tre “getting off” I can assure you that that will not be the case; she and the children will suffer greatly if Juicy goes to jail, as I believe he will. I have shared on this board previously that my father died when I was 2 years old and my sister was 3. Raising two little girls alone was extremely difficult for my mother; Tre will be responsible for raising four. My mother told me recently that she quite deliberately hid her tears and cried only when she was alone in her bedroom at night; I have no doubt that Tre will do the same. And the girls will suffer his absence not only as my sister and I did but will also have to endure the public shame of having a parent in prison as well. My mother’s brothers were of great assistance to her but Tre’s brother is a complete idiot and, assuming he isn’t imprisoned himself, will be of no help to her. Tre’s father may well die while Juicy is “away” and, while I cannot imagine how she will get through that loss without the comfort and support of her husband, she will have to. And then there is also the matter of forfeiture; any plea bargain will likely include a substantial penalty that could leave Tre and the girls impoverished as well.

          Please rest assured in the knowledge then that, even if Tre is legally exonerated, you will indeed get your pound of flesh.

          • Oh poor poor Teresa she may have to get a real job and live in a home that dosnt resemble a Tomb and GASP it maybe a home someone else lived in.
            Teresa will have to drive a Toyota instead of a Lincoln nav or that fancy Corvette juicy is driving around town in. Poor Poor teresa will have to live like normal law abiding folks and about time she does understand her days of being spoiled diva are over

            • I doubt it Lisa. If she gets outta doin time she will still work whatever businesses she has left and still be on rhonj. Maybe she can live with Mego and we can watch them fight all the time…lol.

              • or come back more popular than ever, raising her kids, starting new life. best storyline ever

            • But she would convince her fans that she wanted to get that real job, that the small house she’s living in is really her weekday home and that she lives in the mansion on the weekend and that her Lincoln and Vette were stolen by Joe and Melissa because they couldn’t afford their own cars. Being such a wonderful kind-hearted person, she didn’t press charges against her brother and sis-in-law because she loves them so much and then informs her fans that the Toyota is less pretentious, and she has never ever had the need for expensive things, And her fans will believe her! LOL!

              • Well ya know, I would totally believe her about the Toyota. In this day, it looks crappy and not eco-friendly driving big gas guzzlers. I saw a Hummer today and thought, what an inconsiderate idiot! Conspicuous consumption is soooo ’90′s!

              • will poison joe nd melissa help his parents out, since its poison joes fault, that they lost home, because he took loan out on it?

  34. I don’t worry at all about the Giudices. They deserve all that is coming their way. I feel sorry for their children who will pay the worst price. While your mother sounds like a wonderful woman her tears should be applauded for all she did. Teresa’s tears will mean nothing.
    The Feds could extend the statute of limitations to begin when the fraud was discovered. The bankruptcy was denied because of the belief that income and assets were withheld. That alleged fraud will likely be proven in court.
    And yes, you do sign a final loan application at closing on mortgages. Every. Single. Time. It makes no difference if done by mail or in a closing office but it is ALWAYS part of the closing process. And as I said before…if the Giudices provided a tax return as their proof of income on a mortgage loan and did not file that return with the IRS then the fraud is easily proven. It matters not if they didnt have sufficient income to file. That would be their sole purpose for presenting a fraudulent return for the loan in the first place! They will lose on either the failure to file or the fraud for sure. They can’t defend it both ways. The fraud to secure the mortgages is the big charge with the stiffest penalties (wire and mail fraud). In the history known publically about the Giudices these charges were the most surprising and totally unknown. I believe that’s where the Feds have their best chance at conviction or a nasty plea deal for the Giudices. Plea deals don’t mean innocence

  35. I don’t relish getting a “pound of flesh.” If Teresa is convicted it will be for her own choices and greed. The irony is that the very show that brought her fame could be what brings her down. The Giudice’s actions on the show will be and likely have been scrutinized already. She sold her soul to be the most popular. It’s a real pattern on these shows. The first season is relatively calm but by the second season at least one of the housewives engages in really over-the-top behavior, (although the table flip in season one showed that Teresa learned the Bravo way to fame early.). Jill Zarin and Tamra Barney are other perfect examples. The more outrageous the better.
    And again, as usual, we have the …Teresa’s brother is a complete idiot and assuming he isn’t imprisoned also won’t be any help comment….and you are positive of this why? 39 indictments against Teresa and Joe and you defend their chances of getting off. No indictments against Joe Gorga and you assume to think he could face imprisonment. No biases there! And he wouldn’t be any help? Have you forgotten how much Gia loved her Uncle Joe? How close everyone said they were? I guess Gia is only crazy about complete idiots.

          • When the Gorgas and Laritas are in federal court on fraud charges you will have a point. Until then, there is no comparison to the charges of the theft of millions by the Giudices. But if you can’t spot that you’ve been played by the Giudices already I doubt that even prison time will help you see the light. You do realize that the fraud they are accused of committing costs you and me, right? Never heard of pogo.

            • no it is a different whippet i know from pogo games. put jacko\s and chris name in search, you can read for yourself what they are charged with, all fed crimes, then they also have the assualt charged sept 5th

              • Any links to those federal indictments against the Lauritas? Google doesn’t seem to show them. I know they have business bankruptcy issues and suits but can’t find any federal indictments yet. Doesn’t mean there won’t be some in the future but I don’t see any now.

              • i don’t use google i just put names in aol search and list of stuff comes up then i click one i want to read

  36. Since google has more information than AOL, I assume you aren’t reading actual indictments or media articles that link to federal indictments of the Lauritas, but articles at other blogs, etc that wishfully have decided that the Lauritas have beem indicted, truth be damned?

    • whippet: For info re the Laurita’s case, pls enter “Signature Apparel” in the SH search bar. We’ve been following the Laurita case for over two years… long before other sites picked up on it. Happy reading!! TFC!! SH

  37. SH has screenshots of court docs, etc….all before they sealed the case – talks about Chris destroying evidence – is caught and pleads guiltyto purgery. Good read-based on FACTS –

    • I will ask again. Are the “FACTS” that there are currently Federal indictments against the Lauritas and I am not finding them in the research, or are there none and these “FACTS” you speak of are not facts at all? it appears to me the Laurita case is still in the investigation phase which means Federal indictments could or could not be pending.
      The whole purpose of my discussion here is that the actual Federal indictments against the Giudices are real and that many Giudice supporters are attempting to deflect from the serious nature of the charges by claiming the Laurita’s are just as bad. (as if that would make the Giudices less criminal).

      • Which is funny because I use to get harrassed by the tre huggers when I brought up there misdeeds when another HW was being discussed . I guess its ok when THEY do it.

        • I guess it makes sense that their fans are like that since Teresa and Juicy Joe always blame someone else for everything even when it comes out of their own mouths!

      • Whippet: The Laurita case is much more complicated and involved than that of the Joodice case, as the Laurita case tried to hide behind the corporate veil. There really is no comparison between the two cases. So far, there have been NO indictments in the Laurita case. Pls enter “Signature Apparel” in the SH search bar if you need further info. TFC!!! SH

        • Thanks. I already did the search and found mostly what I already knew. My point here is that there is no comparison, at this point, and those who choose to deflect from the Giudice charges to what’s going on with the Lauritas are simply deflecting to protect their blinded view of the Giudices. Until there are Federal indictments of the Lauritas the family currently in the most trouble is the Giudices. And the Giudice supporters continue to point to indictments of the Lauritas that don’t exist. They believe whatever the Giudices say even when faced with Federal indictments and look for excuses for their behavior and then claim they have the facts. It’s actually quite revealing about the Giudice supporters. I seriously doubt they will excuse the Lauritas if indictments come their way in the future. Apparently to be a Giudice supporter you have to have a double standard even when serious federal indictments are in place.

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